Episode 285: Mikaal Bates’ mission is the evolution of Masculine Consciousness across the Planet in our lifetime. He loves helping Men, Women and everyone in between find creative and lasting ways to cut through Resistance to find True Purpose & Deepest Love. He travels the world in partnership as a Transformational Coach, Leader of Men’s Work, Workshop & Rites of Passage Facilitator, Ritual Creator, and Curator of Ecstatic Experience.

Show notes:

  • What is Mikaal Bates currently musing about?
  • How do men listen to their intuition more?
  • How Mikaal keeps meditation from feeling overwhelming.
  • Energetic agility with Justin Patrick Pierce: http://www.justinpatrickpierce.com/
  • The gift of the feminine is it keeps things fresh—it keeps things from being robotic. In the moment, the feminine always wants more.”
  • Polyamory vs monogamy.
  • Why Mikaal decided to explore polyamorous relationships. 
  • The difference between Polyamory and open relationships.
  • Why he doesn’t identify with the term ‘polyamorous.’
  • “Honesty and real time is the medicine for a nurturing, valuable relationship with a real chance of longevity.”
  • The gifts and lessons that came from his polyamorous relationships.
  • “Compersion” – the opposite of jealousy.
  • What are some boundaries that people often cross in polygamy?
  • “Sex is not just for pleasure—it’s a vehicle for enlightenment. The body of the female is a tool for enlightenment.”
  • Madelyn’s current relationship and the status that she’s most comfortable with.
  • “We always attract our reciprocal.”
  • Why Mikaal has decided to be monogamous for now. 
  • Londin Angel Winters’ podcast: https://maddymoon.com/londin-angel-winters/
  • Must-read books: The Way of the Superior Man https://amzn.to/2PWFUI4 by David Deida; Iron John https://amzn.to/2ZrF9tQ by Robert Bly, 12 Rules for Life https://amzn.to/2smd8rt by Jordan Peterson, The Awakened Women’s Guide to Everlasting Love https://amzn.to/2t3EvGV by Londin Angel Winters, Stealing Fire https://amzn.to/2sd8g8c by Steven Kotler & Jamie Wheal.

Connect with Mikaal:

COACHING: receive personalized, 1:1 coaching from Maddy Moon to create your own feminine and masculine embodiment. Heal your heart, build confidence, create an online business (if that’s a goal!) or simply feel happier. Apply here: http://maddymoon.com/coaching

FEMININE SPIRIT SCHOOL: this school is the one-stop-shop for all things feminine energy! If you’ve been wanting to embody the feminine but feel stuck on the how, this program will take you through the entire realm from start to (well…we’re never really finished, are we?). Learn about the feminine/masculine, shadow sides, ancestral healing, boundary setting, empowerment, sensuality and sexuality, sovereignty and so much more. Sign up here: http://maddymoon.com/feminine-spirit



Maddy: [00:00] hello and welcome to a new decade, a new month, a new year, a new podcast episode. I am head over heels that you are choosing to listen to the mind body musings podcasts to start out this new decade. Not only that, this is the first episode of the mind body musings podcast for this decade, and I chose to release the episode I did with Mikaal Bates for this new year, because we are talking about a topic that is also fairly new to a lot of people. We’re talking about a subject, or even an idea that is really new to a lot of people and that is polyamorous relationships. We also talk about a man’s intuition something you very rarely hear about, as well as being in the stillness to allow the energy that wants to come forward in your life; come forward rather than forcing it just simply sitting and being and allowing it to grow from that place. But definitely I would say at the heart of the conversation is around communication and meeting new layers of yourself through a venture like being in a polyamorous relationship, and what comes from that. Mikaal has been poly since 2014 and he just now at the time that we recorded this podcast a couple weeks ago, entered into a monogamous relationship, so he has a lot to say about his time being polyamorous, as well as going into this monogamous stage of his life once more and why he’s doing that. Lots of really, really insightful pieces in this podcast episode and I am a very big fan of Mikaal now, I was already in admiration of him and what he stands for and the work he does in the world but now, after feeling his presence and having this conversation with him I am a big believer in his work and I know he’s doing some really powerful work in the world right now and I’m really delighted by how many I’ve had on the show recently I had a lot of men on. Don’t know why specifically I’ve been called to do so I think I’ve just been really called to hear their voices. The men who are really doing this work, who are standing at the front line of this divine union we’re creating and not just the divine union as you’ll hear Mikaal talk about in this podcast but a divine human, divine everyone, allowing everyone to have a voice, no matter what gender or sexual preference or orientation you are. Allowing everyone to just become love, to speak of love and live as love and do what we need to do in order to be that and test things out and so that brings us full circle back into this conversation of polyamory because a lot of people move into this space so that they’re making room for more love. So, Mikaal Bates mission is the evolution of masculine consciousness across the planet in our lifetime. He loves helping men, women and everyone and everyone in between find creative and lasting ways to cut through resistance to find true purpose and deepest love. He travels the world in partnership as a transformational coach, leader of men’s work, workshop and rites of passage facilitator, ritual creator and curator of ecstatic experience. Get ready to dive into this episode, especially if you’re even somewhat curious about polyamory or even if you’re not curious about polyamory this is a great episode listen to just educate yourself and why people do it in first place and what gifts could be within it because it’s more than likely that you have someone in your life at least that is polyamorous. I have many friends in my life that are polyamorous, and I’ll share more in this podcast episode, a recent venture that I’ve taken on with my current lover, so stay tuned for that.

Maddy: [04:06] okay, I’ve got some free gifts on my website you can go to maddymoon.com/freegifts to get more goodies, including a list of the Top 10 most popular episodes on my podcast in the realm of feminine and masculine. So if you’ve been wondering how do I get all the most popular feminine masculine episodes you’ve done well I’ve got a list of them, and they’re on my website now and I also have a list of four different embodiment practices you can do any day, under 10 minutes, that is available on my website, absolutely for free, so you can start diving deeper into your feminine journey and your masculine consciousness today. Last thing I’ll share is that this is the final few days, four days to be exact to sign up for the feminine spirit school which is my one stop shop course for all things learning your feminine, masculine, shadow sides, which means the repressed sides of you, healing your ancestral lineage, going into your, your playful creative childlike spirit, sensuality, sexuality if you’re wanting to work one on one with me but you haven’t yet done so this is a wonderful way to introduced to my work and have things, have tools, have worksheets, have things you’re going to do in the actual world, exercises and practices you go out and do and you can start doing them now, because we’re starting next week. January 6th we officially begin together and not only do you have eight weeks of great content to dive into you also get two embodiment sessions with me live; so I’ll be doing group live sessions. So if you’re interested in this at all reach out to me if you have questions, you want to just go ahead and sign on up, you can go to maddymoon.com/feminine-spirit; you can see testimonials there you can see the people who do guest contributions including my personal teacher John Wineland, Anaia Sundara, and so many other beautiful insightful feminine and masculine embodiment teachers who submit some practices. So if you want to get those practices and have these tools to keep your entire life, because you have lifetime access you can go head on over there, grab them, sign on up, join us. You will not be disappointed. There’s so much goodness waiting for you when you tap into the feminine and masculine spirits within yourself. If you enjoyed this episode subscribe to the mind body musings podcast you never, ever miss one every single Wednesday, you get a new episode which is so exciting. You don’t even have to think about it, you just open your phone and vava-voom, it’s there waiting for you, hit subscribe, follow along on this journey for the next year and let me know if you have any questions whatsoever about this insightful podcast with Mikaal Bates, all about polyamory. *intro music*

Maddy: [07:37] goddess guidance, my first deck.

Mikaal: [07:50] would you like to draw one too?

Maddy: [07:52] I’m going to trust you to draw one for the collective here, collective experience.

Mikaal: [07:56] I used to be super random with just sort of the way I drew I would be like, okay, now but now it’s like, I have started kind of experiencing like heat differentials in my palm. So it’s like it kind of, and for me the job of trusting that over my rational mind trying to be like you’re full of crap and what do you what think. Well, narrowing it down. Sorry. That’s our lady. Let’s see who she is; Bridget I think she is an Irish Celtic goddess. Don’t back down it says stand up for what you believe is right.

Maddy: [08:45] so, in this podcast interview we are going to be standing up for everything that we believe in fully. First, be quite clear about your intentions if you are unclear then confusion will lessen your power and force like a candle in the dark be very clear and bright in what is acceptable to you in this situation. Make no mistake, I will guide and protect you. Awesome. Perfect feels right for the mind body music podcast.

Mikaal: [09:15] I love her decks too because they’re very clear and concise like some of the decks it just goes on and on for a pages, which is good in some conditions but sometimes you just kind of want to get to it.

Maddy: [09:26] so first question that I like to start this podcast with is what are you currently musing about in life? What interests you in any relevant life?

Mikaal: [09:37] in any relevant life? Wow, what a great question. Well, I’m getting ready to move to Colorado for three months, which is exciting. I keep expecting it to be nerve wracking and it’s not. I think largely because, kind of like what I just sort of shared with the deck. There’s an aspect of my own intuition, that’s coming online in a new way. It’s sort of making me realize just how long I’ve been going without connection to my sort of intuitive self, to my belly, to my gut and it’s kind of hilarious because I think it wasn’t until like five years ago that I even considered that men could have intuition, in a way, because you always hear of like feminine intuition, and I grew up with a mother who was just super powerful Queen matriarch goddess creature with her Tarot decks and stuff. So it’s just kind of like witnessing the ability of the feminine to be what I think almost the innate nature of the feminine when she’s connected to herself, which is the is the oracle which is the ability to sort of divine the next thing to do. So for me it was just like feeling so sort of trapped in my own head and sort of so connected to the rational machinations of my intellect always trying make me decisions that there’s a real excitement right now that’s sort of, I guess, burgeoning that’s the word burgeoning in me because it’s like I feel like I’m, I’m sort of coming into this trust of my own intuition and realizing that that there’s a masculine side to that too, whatever that even means. It’s like you know we’re in this amazing moment now where men/women, masculine/feminine, what’s what, who’s what, things are shifting but for me it is really cool. I feel like I’m starting to develop some powers of observation in a realm that I haven’t had before, that feels really, really good and like actually feeling spirit or whatever you want to call it. Intuition guiding me like in my decisions like I want to I want to move to Colorado and then immediately my conscious mind will start like this is good idea? And you know, really? And then there’s just this other voice or other frequency now it’s almost like a radio, like tuning knob that I feel like I can tune to something else that’s offering information in a new way and now my job is just to try to trust it because often it will just tell me things that seem ridiculous and so it’s like yeah leaning into that edge of it. And, and really learning from the women in my life that I’m so blessed to have, in many different ways that are that are more connected to that, that realm of decision making I guess so.

Maddy: [12:37] do you remember where you were when your intuition first said, Colorado, what you were doing, how you treated that voice when it first popped in?

Mikaal: [12:46] I laugh, there was there was such relief there because I think for me and so many people I know it reminds me of something, I remember Eckhart Tolle saying two impediments to enlightenment the pain body and the thinking mind, and he talked about you know women having a clear advantage in both that women are actually more innately disposed towards enlightenment. So, there is this just deep relief because I feel for most of my life haven’t had that guidance, it’s just I’ve been trying to do it. I’ve been trying to sort of you know listen to my guide or that still small voice or that inner knowing, but haven’t really been able to find it. In the in the past few years it definitely started emerging but there’s just this deep relief that comes when there’s something in me that just knows that this is the right way to go and I don’t have to go into that bouncing around at the intellect that is like it’s an amazing tool, the intellect but I don’t know that it’s designed for certain forms of decision making, because it’s just limited. It can’t see around corners, it doesn’t have access to certain I guess methods of sensation and different apertures to which things can be felt it’s only the five senses so to, to start to step into other realms and I won’t get too esoteric with it but I felt really amazing. I almost wept there’s this deep sense of relief to feel something so deep in my body mind like in my not in my, not in my intellect that was just a yes do this, and then this sort of trust, that’s there, so feels really good.

Maddy: [14:32] now that I think about it most of my life has been based off of intuition not intellect. I never until this moment I’m really realizing this because the intellect is really something I struggle with of looking at the bigger picture and how the parts can equal a bigger part like what’s the smartest move. Typically I just go with the gut instinct and move a lot like I just pick up like a thief in the night and move because there’s part of my body that’s like you need to live. When I went to Colorado is the same thing when I transferred colleges when I was younger, same thing when I came here when I was living in Colorado there was this voice that was just like Williamsburg. Williamsburg, like, that is the place you need to be Williamsburg, never lived there before and I just like yeah, this feels, this feels really good even though for most of my life I resonate with being a masculine type goal oriented human. I really don’t I think I am I’ve identified with that but when I meet people who really truly are in the masculine and live in the intellect I’m like actually I’m not like that at all, that’s pretty different from how I am and that is fascinating to be able to see the pieces in that way, and how we’re learning, each other’s different strong suits. What would you say for men, as a whole, men do need to learn how to listen to their intuition more; this is a very important conversation because we do talk a lot about a woman’s intuition and we don’t like I have never even heard of a men’s intuition like that is not something we say and a woman’s intuition is very important to for us to begin to bring that back in when it has been squashed for so many years for being called crazy you know from other unconscious people we’re learning, but also alongside us we need men to learn how to listen to this voice as well. So what would you say to men who are also I want to listen to my intuition what is that? What is a starting point for them to slow down enough to even hear that voice?

Mikaal: [16:31] well I think you said it; it’s slowing down, it’s getting quiet, it’s listening and, you know, the, the tools that the intuition that God has to speak to us, our body sensations, because it doesn’t speak in a linear language and I think that’s why, you know, we’re just going to, we’re already in it so let’s just get into it you know sort of the stereotypes of masculine and feminine energetic. That the rational sort of linear like A to B thinking is sort of the, I define it as sort of a masculine way of thinking and the feminine being more intuitive, more sort of A + D = ? and for so long that has been considered crazy because to a rational mind it doesn’t make sense and the rational mind can’t understand that. So I think it’s really bad that there’s been so much crazy labeling put on women but there’s, it’s just because it is a completely different way of, it’s the other side of the coin of approaching things. For me it’s been useful to sort of use that terminology for you listening to this or for anyone else, you know, it might it might be prohibitive. So I would say to you know, find your own words for it. I do a lot of work with men and women where we’ll use the terms like claim versus surrender or presence versus invitation to sort of talk about those sort of opposite sides of the spectrum that are really just like placeholders in a way like we live in the third dimension in order to sort of move in time and space you have to have two points on a grid, in order to be able to navigate in any sense of up down left right. So for me, they’re just they’re just markers, they are points on a grid and most of life is lived in between that space so to get back to sort of your question but being still and being quiet. That’s part of why I’m going to Colorado my nervous system kind of needs a break from Brooklyn and in the city for 16 years. I had the experience, yeah I’ve been here for 16 years right after college so I did a play in Europe this summer, I’m an actor as well.

Maddy: [18:47] you are an actor? Oh my God, I didn’t know that. I actually started acting this year. I kind of had a small inkling that you were in it and now I am remembering that I wanted to ask you about that.

Mikaal: [19:01] well, to be honest acting was a huge part of, of tapping into this side of myself, of tapping into my creative intuitive aspect you know specifically working on the emotional body. I mean I had those first moments in acting school of feeling like my, my life on stage was more authentic than my real life because I was suddenly I had permission to access my anger, I had permission to access these parts of my emotional body that I hadn’t been given myself permission because of my upbringing. I mean we all have this we all have places where we hold ourselves back because of information that we’ve gotten but I think whatever you can do to get quiet. For me, meditation has been a part of my life for a long time and I know for some people there’s a lot of buzz around meditation right now but it can be incredibly intimidating to because there’s thousands of ways to meditate and how do you do it if you’re not you know. It can be really difficult to just sit down for 15 minutes; so what I do with a lot of my coaching clients is we start with five minutes of just turning everything off, sitting down with your eyes closed and just watching the breath. I mentioned it earlier it’s like there’s all this, our intuition is always talking to us, I really believe that, always it never ever stops, you can’t kill it, you can’t remove it from your body it’s always there. It’s just operating at a volume that I think is a lot more subtle than most of the information especially now days with all the technology that we’re getting. So turning off your phone, turning off your computer, getting into a quiet space and starting to listen. There is a lot of different techniques I use a lot of breathe counting, or meta equanimity practices or even body scanning, where you are sort of scanning your body for just what you’re feeling. I think for men particularly or for humans that have a hard time sort of feeling things, just starting with what are you feeling right now? Okay, what am I feeling right now? Three words; what am I feeling? Okay I’m excited to be here with Madelyn, there is a little warmth in my chest, I feel a little fuzzy, so it’s just starting to just name what you’re feeling and this sort of for me the process or practice of starting to turn that volume knob up on another form of intelligence that exists in our bodies. For me it’s not about supplanting or replacing the intellect; the intellect it’s important. It’s really important. It’s not about making yourself wrong or, that’s something I love to do is beat myself up; I didn’t meditate for 15 minutes oh I was distracted. Then it’s like, maybe that’s not quite the best process but yeah, getting quiet, investigating different ways to do that. There’s lots of different ways to sort of access that part of ourselves, whether through breath work, through music, through dance; a lot of different pathways. There’s a great book called Stealing Fire, I really recommend like Jamie, Wheal I think is his last name. Two guys that wrote it actually but it’s all about sort of the entry points to ecstasy to access this sort of these points of flow state. I think I’m sort of accidentally changing the subject a little bit.

Maddy: [22:25] I like this though. I like this it is really fascinating. That’s one of the foundational points making better communication I found it’s just saying what’s happening with the body like me and one of my girlfriends just had this like little, for lack of a better way to put it we had an argument. We still had it in a very conscious way and the way that we started our argument was it started through texts and wrote to me like I’m noticing, as I’m writing this to you my heart is pounding, my hands are shaking, and I feel my face getting red, and I’m afraid of what you’re going to think when you read this, but here we go. And that right there, gives me such a clear, visceral experience of what she was feeling, and that to me was more powerful than anything else she could have said even anything that followed, is knowing how her body was experiencing what she was about to say; how she was scared, how she was frustrated. I could feel all that happening in my own body and it made it all of a sudden much more relatable to know oh she’s shaking, she’s afraid, she feels red, she feels hot; she’s angry, she’s hurt, she’s feeling pain underneath the blame or whatever is about to come. So that right there is really powerful and we can get there through this meditations by simply knowing what is happening in my body? Okay I notice my hands are clenching or I notice this and for men especially like the meditation is a masculine practice it is going into the state of nothingness rather than ecstatic dance which is a practice of the feminine.

Mikaal: [23:55] which is I think a really important point to make because for me there are two big entry points into that practice into the into the practice of finding my center into the practice of my intuition and my sense of reality, and that on the one hand is my mat as I would classify one of these masculine practices that are more about emptying out and getting still and getting quiet and listening from that side, going into nothingness, no-thing-ness. Meditation, breath work that’s crucial but for me, there’s this balance on the other side I’ve been dancing five rhythms for over a decade, it is my medicine. It’s what allows me to go into those stillness practices because it’s like I’m, I feel fueled on the other side of the equation as well. So for me, one of my teachers talks about energetic agility, as sort of this just;

Maddy: [24:49] Justin Patrick Pierce.

Mikaal: [24:50] Justin Patrick Pierce, that’s the one.

Maddy: [24:51] I’ve talked about energetic agility it is one of the best ways to describe going in between these different states of Alpha Omega.

Mikaal: [25:00] absolutely and to be honest, Justin Patrick Pierce and Londin Angel Winters; his wife and partner and I’ve been, I’ve had the deep honor of being their workshop assistant for a couple years and there they’ve been my main teachers; all of us sort of coming out of a bit of David Dieda’s work.

Maddy: [25:17] I am from John Wineland’s assisting with them; we should assist together some time.

Mikaal: [25:23] we actually all assisted for David; John and myself, and Justin at one point.

Maddy: [25:31] are you going to David’s in North Carolina?

Mikaal: [25:32] I am not. Unfortunately, are you going?

Maddy: [25:35] I think I’m going to go to the three day.

Mikaal: [25:38] amazing, will this be your first experience?

Maddy: [25:39] with David? Yes. Should I go, because I’m kind of like maybe I don’t know?

Mikaal: [25:44] you should go.

Maddy: [25:45] okay then yes I am going to go.

Mikaal: [25:46] I’ll just preface it with this; my first workshop with him, which is where I met Justin and John, who are already assisting for him I spent, I spent those three days pretty much in a meditative state for three days. I think a lot of it had to do with the work that we were doing but also just David’s, he spent a lot of time in practice, and I think with a lot of people that, you know, call it whatever you want but there’s a certain quality that they’ve cultivated about themselves, I, on the other side of the equation I feel it with Amma; The hugging saint from India.

Maddy: [26:30] I have heard her name like five times just in the past like two months.

Mikaal: [26:34] oh goodness she, she makes her tour in the States during the summer usually and she is in New York usually always around July 4th around the Independence Day holiday. I try to see her every year, because it’s like it’s just incredible. It’s an incredible experience and by the time I get within about 20 yards of her I am tripping. It’s like walking into a vortex and it was like that for David too.

Maddy: [26:57] what is she known for? What is she? Is she an author?

Mikaal: [27:03] no, not at all. She, she gives people hugs. I think to me that’s, that’s such a interesting  differentiation between sort of like a masculine form of, I don’t, I don’t want to use the word sort of higher vibration or closer to an enlightened state; I don’t know if either of them are that, I don’t want to get into that, argue that but that. I think the reason why most of the saints in literature that we have through history that all the, all of the sort of enlightened ones are men, because I think that the, the male mind of the masculine sort of does write books and does stuff in that form but that the feminine just kind of is. She just is the teaching, she is the emanation so there are people that can write maybe a book about her and there’s, you know she’s got this whole retinue that goes with her around the world but also she just is herself.

Maddy: [28:00] I just love that you just pointed that out. That feels so good. That is a lesson I think like I’m touching my body because oh my god this feels so good. People need to just sink into that right here and just knowing that the feminine’s gift is simply being. Within all of us too and it is just there’s this beautiful feminine masculine to you, and you don’t have to go build a business around it for it to be seen.

Mikaal: [28:23] yeah, and that’s sort of the, I think the beautiful gifts of a lot of the tantric literature is Kashmiri and all this stuff where it really is both. It is not it’s not a one is better than the other, you know, the we spoke about it a moment before that, the, you can qualify the masculine realm around like being like just be. My mom used to make me so angry because from the time I was little kid she says Mikaal you just need to be yourself, just be yourself, don’t worry about it, just be just be who you are and I was like what the fuck does that mean? Like mom what does it mean; how do I just be myself?

Maddy: [28:57] my niece would always say remember who you are and that still bothers me like I am who I am I don’t need to remember it.

Mikaal: [29:08] of course, of course but it’s like you know the Dieda and Justin and all of us we sort of talked about like consciousness and light as sort of the two emanations of masculine feminine, what they sort of rep as representational pieces sort of on that grid of this is here and this is here and life lives in between those two places. But yeah, consciousness just is, there’s just an is-ness to it, there’s literally nothing to do. There is nothing to do. It’s like the practice of doing nothing is something we talk about and I struggle with it but that’s sort of in meditation, that’s what I’m trying to do is to try to do no-thing and then from that no-thing place that being place authentic doing starts to flow. Not from the mind like I need to do this or how do I build my business I need to because I read this article I need to, you know, get a bunch of followers and right if it’s like no. For me it’s the authenticity like I meant to be doing what is the next intended thing very naturally flows when I can get into that state of just sort of doing no-thing and waiting and just waiting and just waiting and then the doing this all the sort of things this sort of contextualized in more of like the feminine realm. So it’s like almost like the evolutionary principle on the one hand like everything is perfect, everything’s perfect exactly how it is being is unconscious and perfect; they just are. It’s perfect like you are perfect just the way right now in this moment, absolutely 1,000% that is actually true. And what is also true, is that Jesus Christ could have been a little more loving, the Dalai Lama could be a little more peaceful, that blade of grass is perfect as it is, but it’s still growing it’s still, it’s still yearning for something more. I can’t remember if it was Justin or Londin of I feel like one of them, sort of talked about them, like a woman could have 20 orgasms, you know, I think it was Londin of course it’s Londin my favorite Londin maxim is you no gives you your yes by the way, which is so amazing with that. Oh my gosh 20 orgasms, you have the most mind blowing orgasms right you have you have the most mind blowing sex of your life or the most you eat the most delicious piece of cake or chocolate you ever had and you’re just like, Oh, perfect, guess what, you’re gonna wake up the next day, and you’re going to want 21 orgasms right yeah so. I think that’s the point that for men or the masculine is really confusing, it’s like, wait a second I did this I pushed this button, I did this and she had an orgasm. Isn’t that enough if I just do that, that same sequence again tomorrow and it’s going to work. So in a way, the gift of the feminine I feel our omega to use Justin and Londin’s terminology is it keeps things fresh and keeps things from becoming robotic and keeps things in moment, that the moment is always changing and the moment always wants more and that is the difference and so it, but that’s the trick it’s not one or the other; it’s both, it’s the paradox and both are true. I believe this sort of extrapolates in all directions and forms I think politically even both are correct, you need liberalism and you need conservatism they’re both correct in a lot of ways. The sort of argument right now around, sort of, the whole political landscape, it’s like, it’s, it’s not either or it’s like both have good qualities and both have bad qualities and it’s like, can I recognize that and sort of realize what parts of myself, are served by a more conservative way of going about my daily life more structure more you know regimentation, it can be really useful. It can also be really prohibitive, depending on what we’re what we’re looking at. And part of me that that needs more liberalism, more freedom, more flexibility, more creativity, but only having that structure can be really insane. So there’s medicine and this again comes back to the idea of energetic agility and where is your medicine, where do you naturally sort of lean and if we can sort of and Dieda talks about this and sort of like our edge like finding where your edges are and then applying the medicine maybe of the other pole the other aspects so, using polarity using these, these ways of looking at things and looking at the world medicinally to become medicinal men and women.

Maddy: [34:14] I get emails from people all the time saying things like am I weird to, is it weird of me too and this goes perfectly into what we’re saying about society taught us like anytime you say, am I weird for, you’re saying basically am I different than the way society taught me to be in regards to blah, blah. I think that’s the first thing to realize, like when we’re starting to see that oh there’s great things about being liberal there’s great things about being conservative it is never supposed to be black and white, in any aspect of life and I think this is a good segue because I’m trying to get better at the segue into talking about wanting it all; like polyamory. I’m very excited to chat with you about this and polyamory again like I even I told my Instagram I said hey I’m going to be talking about polyamory on the podcast what questions do you have and someone had said something like, I’m really into the idea of polyamory or is really into monogamy; am I weird for that? Which automatically the answer is no that question is not weird of you, but you know you’ve been poly for a very long time, and I would love to hear where that originally started and then I have some deeper questions to get into after that.

Mikaal: [35:34] I didn’t even know polyamory was a thing. I didn’t know it was an option, or something available. It was I think 2014 was the last time I was in a monogamous relationship until a couple weeks ago. I am now officially in a monogamous relationship, and it’s been that long, 2015 was kind of about when it started. I started dating a woman who was in that world and in that scene and sort of introduced me to the term itself and the sort of the vast network of polyamory in New York.

Maddy: [36:12] what is polyamory too because some people might not know, even the different polyamory and open relationships?

Mikaal: [36:17] yeah there’s multiple definitions for it. For me poly meaning many, being open to having many different many, many lovers as opposed to one but there’s that’s the thing there’s so there’s so many different distinctions in poly and I’ve seen people do it horribly, and I have seen people do it wonderfully. I feel like I’ve done it, horribly and I’ve done it wonderfully I don’t people are always asking, are you poly are you this I’m like, I actually don’t identify as poly, I don’t identify as anything really, because I’ve been monogamous and I’ve been head over heels in love and totally satisfied and I’ve been absolutely miserable in a monogamous relationship and felt like I was in prison and I’ve been, head over heels in love with two different women at the same time which I didn’t know as possible until it happened. Those were, you know, four of the best months of my life like are you kidding I mean it was, it was amazing. I’ve also been completely in shadow and completely sort of in a space of what kind of almost just felt like an excuse for being non committal, in a way, which is because I think it can be weaponized like anything and people can use it as an excuse. For me the advice I give to any and all of my friends just asking for relationship advice is, I don’t care if you’re in a monogamous relationship or poly or open or however you want to categorize yourself, honesty in real time. Honesty in real time and that’s the challenge and that’s to me the medicine for a good, good that’s an interesting word to use a nurturing, valuable relationship with, with a real chance for longevity. Being able to be honest with how you’re feeling with what you want with what your needs are poly has taught me what the gift of it I think the necessity for clear and concise communication. It was an amazing opportunity for me to get really clear on what I wanted and to really start to explore the opportunity of getting to have these things that I want. Getting to, you know, communicate what I was okay with, because it’s like in theory, it’s great yeah I’m gonna I’m gonna date like four different people or I’m going to have like four different loves and that’s amazing and you know, great but then what if the woman that I’m seeing also has four different lovers and you know, I’m her Thursday guy and she’s got a Wednesday guy and she’s got a Tuesday guy; how does that feel on the other side of the equation? There’s this term in poly that I really love called compersion which is such a juicy word and compersion is the experience the lived experience of experiencing pleasure or turn on from your partner being with other people. So it’s like the opposite of jealousy in a way like something like that. Poly really gave you, you want to talk about I hear a lot of people say oh I don’t feel jealousy I’m not really jealous I was one of those people I felt like I didn’t really experience jealousy and I am confident in myself, you know, if you want to be with me, you know, you’ll be with me and if not you won’t, but you want to really start to dig into the seven deadly sins and how they sort of live in your body in ways that you had no idea where there. Poly is a great way to explore that because I got to really feel where my jealousy was and the different aspects that would make me jealous which really surprised me

Maddy: [40:02] oh man, I have so many questions. Okay, so what if someone is jealous and they want to try out polyamory and one of the things that they say to their partners. Yeah, we can be with different people, but I don’t want to hear about it. I don’t want to hear is that a bad way to start poly if it is all based off of truth and communication to pretend like it’s not there and not want to talk about it or hear about it or do you think that’s a way people can do it and have a very healthy relationship?

Mikaal: [40:28] that is a way people can do it. I think it sets a precedent for a level of communication because it’s just there’s, there’s going to be things happening and there’s going to be things being experienced by both you and your partner that you don’t want to hear about that you’re not going to talk about. I’ve done that I’ve had in my early stages of poly with one of my partners, you know, we sort of had a bit of that like, you know, do what you want, be safe but I don’t want to hear about it and that was sort of her ask of me. Again it’s getting really clear on what you want and what you would need and then being able to articulate partner, and that it can often be that things don’t line up your desires might not line up with my desires like I might actually want to know who you’re with. It’s, for example, at one point, you know, my former partner and I we, we were she was my primary partner, so she was she was my woman she was my girlfriend I was her boyfriend we use those terms, but also like primary partner so it would be good if, if we met someone, and there was a resonance there the ask was could you please let me know beforehand. If there’s someone that’s you’re sort of interested in or if there’s a potentiality to hook up or have sex with, if it’s if you can, if, if there’s an opening to let me know please do and what we were sort of addressing there was, you know that sometimes you just meet someone and you’re in the thick of it with them and you know like hang on let me call my partner and that doesn’t quite fit in so we gave ourselves a lot of leeway to sort of take care of each other like that was sort of it like I love you. Please take good care of me. I love you; please take good care of me. So, there were a few times where the caveat to that rule was at the very least before you and I are intimate again together, if you’ve been with someone since our last moment of intimacy, we have to talk about that if you if you say for example, if I had been with someone last night and I came over to her place this morning, and we had sex, and I didn’t tell her about this other person that would be tantamount to cheating, that would not taking care of her. There were moments where I didn’t want to do that because I knew that this might be something that would bring up something for her or a conversation or maybe I wouldn’t get to have sex that morning because we’d have to talk instead of had sex but that’s sort of, in a way, poly is a lot more complicated, in the sense of it often requires a lot more communication at least, at the very least more frequent communication around things but it’s the thing it was very much a thing in real time, where it’s like, we would have a sort of definition for where we were operating and then something would come up and I’d realize I actually I’m actually not okay with that. I’m actually not okay with what we, we said, for example, we, we went to our first like play party like poly play party and I was like a kid in the candy shop like oh my god this is amazing but then something came up. I’m not going to get too specific because I just want to sort of keep the confidentiality of everyone, but something came up that I thought I was totally down for, in real time, and it hit me in a place and it pulled me, it was almost like a, like a traumatic response like I almost kind of had a freeze thing that happened. I was able to sort of resource myself enough to sort of go to her and be like hey, we need to talk and it is really interesting experiences sort of having on your partner’s shoulder while she’s in the, in the act with someone else when you’re sort of having an experience of like a, but we had talked about that we’re like, I don’t care if you’re in the act of something of something that’s not okay. You tell me and it stops. I thought it was going to be me the one says she was going to be coming up with that but it was me coming to her. And, you know, like darling she was, she did stop it kind of took her a second because of course you are in the middle of something but we spoke and, and it stopped. It was one of the hardest things for me to sort of ask for that and it was, it took me down a whole other line but that’s, I got to sort of explore aspects of myself in poly that I don’t know that in some ways monogamy can allow for. Justin and Londin, talk about a lot of stuff like this were in in monogamous containers being able to love each other so deeply that each other’s fantasies of different people or different energies or different archetypes that being able to sort of step into that energetically for each other that there are ways to nourish those parts of ourselves that do want variety in a monogamous container that that sort of again that energetic agility of being able to bring out these, you know really getting curious and interested in what your partner’s fantasies are and it might be something you are not into at all. Like oh my god he wants what really, but this is the man I love so can I, as an offering of love, because I think and this is what they talk about all the time it’s so beautiful. It’s why they’re my teachers, it’s like, we have this love that we want to give and we want it to be give, we want it to be received a certain way. I’m hoping I’m getting this right I think I am but often that’s not necessarily the way of love that people actually need that your partner needs in that moment. So can you be a living emanation of love enough to in times be able to offer a form of love that maybe isn’t the love you want to give but it’s the love that the person that you love needs and being able to offer yourself in loving service and to do that for each other, and have those conversations and have that level of communication.

Maddy: [46:40] one of the things for everyone listening you can hear the dog barking next door. One of the things that I received a question from the audience was around boundaries, like I think having a monogamous relationship can be challenging enough time wise with like being an actor building a business getting back to your text messages your phone calls, doing that with like having all that going on and then having a lover, then having another lover and then another lover. That for me is like one of the reasons why I’m like that, I mean, there are a lot of benefits to it as I’m older I’m starting to think it sounds more and more great and that’s for multiple reasons maybe I will share a little bit like my current relationship with all of this because I won’t go into it now but around boundaries and having to do this communication stuff with multiple people, and having to say I hear you with multiple people like some people can’t even say that to one person I hear you, because their defense mechanism is so strong. I mean I would think that starting with the one person in front of you and learning how to have that nonviolent communication is really important

Mikaal: [47:52] I was about to say there’s so many different forms of authentic relating now nonviolent communication is a great one and it is a very masculine structure, it can it can feel very robotic sometimes it often does for me sometimes I just want to know how you feel and it’s like my inner woman wants to know how you.

Maddy: [48:07] I would rather do embodiment just like, like make sounds and become the animal that best represents how I’m feeling. That to me is way more feminine and fun but nonviolent communication can be also I just can’t lead it because I am the same way I’m saying I don’t want to go there I’d rather just show you how I feel.

Mikaal: [48:25] that’s the, I mean, to me that’s the quote unquote battle of the sexes right it is just a misunderstanding that there are sort of two, two extremes of, relating to things and often, the things that make us attracted to each other are also the things that become the challenges because they’re different, opposites attract but they also can repel in the sense of being difficult in certain ways, but yeah, there’s.

Maddy: [48:53] what do you think, so the question I was getting these questions saying like how do you talk about boundaries? What kind of, I don’t even know what boundaries they’re specifically talking about but I’m sure you have really good idea like what are the boundaries that people tend to cross in doing polyamory that you have to them summon up your, your skill to put a boundary around it?

Mikaal: [49:12] I mean it’s, you know, there’s this maybe even jealousy, like people getting jealous and then holding a container for that and setting a boundary for it, even, even I mean setting a boundary for what you’re open to talk to talk about it at certain times. You know like setting boundaries around how you communicate and when that you know I’m eating breakfast and I got to go to work right now I’m not actually open you just sort of telling me willy nilly about your hook up last night like I need to, the thing about, again, for me for poly it’s, it’s sort of forced me to get really good at communicating it forced me to confront and realize that places in my life that I was not good at communication, the places that I was hiding. The part of me that’s still to the end would sort of have this sense of like being in trouble like can I actually is this okay. Can I actually do this, and there’s this part of me that would feel like I was getting away with something almost there was my, it was my own stuff for sure and, you know, we certainly don’t need to go down the rabbit hole of like biological dispositions between men and women and all that whole sort of thing, I think it is an interesting place to go but with boundaries it’s you have to get really clear on what those are for you, which is I think the gift of it with monogamy there’s almost like an inherited structure of it there’s a idea of this is what it is and this is what you can do but like I just had a conversation with my new partner around like, because I do a lot of different work and a lot of different workshops and I was doing a workshop with a really good friend of mine who does erotic blueprint work.

Maddy: [51:01] Genevieve.

Mikaal: [51:02] that’s right. Oh my god, she’s so amazing.

Maddy: [51:04] this is interesting because you do yeah you do a lot of intimacy work with other women.

Mikaal: [51:09] right and you know, a question came up and you know Genevieve in her sort of brilliance was like hey, I just want to make sure that your partner is okay with us doing this workshop together and if there’s anything she would need. I was just like wow that’s such a, I mean, I immediately felt bad for not having thought of not having extended that to her. So I asked my partner, and my partner was actually like yeah well what are you guys doing? And there’s a little bit of work that we do energetically and I didn’t even sort of realize it because I think I’ve been in sort of the poly world for so long but like, there’s all different types of being monogamous like are you allowed to watch porn in a monogamous relationship? Like, what, what level of commitment to a partner, are we creating? In this case, you know, sort of, running, running energy on Genovese body, and my partner was just really curious like sort of what does that mean, what are you doing and I actually got a little triggered by it, we actually had sort of one of our first I wouldn’t call it an argument, it was just a really a really powerful moment where we both sort of got, I got triggered and then she got triggered because I got triggered because it’s like, well if he is getting triggered there clearly was something going on here.

Maddy: [52:29] did you feel a little bit like this is your work like you can’t be stopped from doing your work?

Mikaal: [52:34] I think that was a big part of it for me it was like oh my god man like, how do I give up like how do I give up my life, in a lot of ways, but what I’m really recognizing now is it’s helping me keep an even more clear container around my energy and sort of where it’s going and how to be a steward of that and how to the recognize projections and how to recognize, just, I think the effect that that we just have on each other as human beings and men and women and everything in between that so much of what I love about the poly world is this sort of this sort of new sort of merging of sex positivity in the world that sex is this beautiful, powerful healing thing that not only that but if you, you know, you really get into the, the esoteric traditions around it and like the tantric traditions like it’s not it’s not just about pleasure it’s a vehicle for enlightenment. Sacred sexuality is a vehicle for enlightenment and there are many traditions that are 5000 plus years old that have used the sexual act but specifically the body of the female as the tool for enlightenment. What we do and so much of that work is, you know, and I’m using the terms he and she but again like I feel that same sex couples actually have a much better understanding of polarity, because you know there’s a man and a man or a woman and women or however you want identify but the energy is always sort of top or bottom or Dom or sub, the energy always sort of divides in a certain way it’s to create that that polarity.

Maddy: [54:17] and it must feel pretty empowering to be able to decide in the relationship depending on a moment which poll is taken by who rather than the automatic assumption that one is the masculine and one’s going to be in the feminine.

Mikaal: [54:28] and then again there’s that energetic agility and getting to play and what’s it like you know if I drop down into my feminine and I’ve already mentioned her a little bit you know there’s definitely a woman that lives in me and you know getting to let her out and see how she wants to sort of move through this body and move through a biologically male body, but it’s just it opens up a whole other realm of possibility. I feel like we’re jumping around a bit here but it’s good.

Maddy: [54:54] the person that I’ve been seeing recently I met him at a John Wineland workshop and he is 17 years older than me. He lives in Maryland and he has two children and here I am 28 years old living in New York City acting and just living this life and I’ve had these this relationship in particular has brought up so much heart opening. I have felt seen, I have felt cared for, I have felt love, and I have felt cherished in the ways I’ve been wanting so deeply for so long. I had an altar that was like in devotion to this man and I felt all these things calling him in and now I have this, this God like man that’s doing all of these things that’s making me feel even more in my feminine and of course he’s four hours away and has two children and he’s 17 years older than me and so now I’m getting all these wonderful things I’m like I’m afraid that fear is like coming up in full force and one of the things that we’ve been talking about over the past few weeks has been and we don’t have a name for it because I maybe I’m afraid of the names of being called like having a label like open or poly or what so my, what I said to him was something just like you know like the time when you’re like dating someone at the beginning and of course you’re just not only dating that person you’re starting to date them and you’re dating other people too, like that’s where we are right now right like. I was just trying to find too but I think really what I’m trying to do is continue to grow with this person without feeling like I can’t live my 28 year old New York City free life, because I have a pattern of dating people, long distance. That’s something of my past because that actually would was a way that I felt safe from the closeness and intimacy. So I would date people from afar and what I would also do when I dated people who lived in other countries sometimes right was pretty much stop living my life and stop living the very free social life I was living. I would stay on lockdown dating someone who lived afar so it was a weird way like boxed up my life locally, but then also distance myself from the love that I was with. So it was very interesting and that is not what I want to do now, I want to protect and love and grow this connection. So we’re doing something that is sort of open I guess it would be open primary partner, but then also letting ourselves explore and be flirtatious life. So we’re learning how to communicate to set some, I don’t say we have clear communication around this yet we have vague communication around this so we’re getting there but this conversation is really helpful to learn how to communicate what we’re comfortable with because when we were talking about this I was just totally honest with him and I said something like, well what I’m most comfortable with is me being able to do what I want and you know, you not and just be with me. But then when I really slow down and think about it I actually have compersion with him and I think about him being able to express his protector masculinity with another woman I’m like that’s pretty hot too. I like that too. So I think a lot of the parts of me that are shut off to this idea of expanding our love with other people just comes from my family, that’s thinking something is wrong with that thinking something’s bad about that or I’m not fully, I can’t fully commit to one person that I know that I can, that’s within me but there’s a gift within all of these different dynamics.

Mikaal: [58:54] I felt very similarly you know compersion for me was, you know, I loved my partner so much and there was so much connection there was like so much trust, where it was like, I knew that if she was going to hook up with someone and if she was going to open her temple to another human being man or woman because of the way she was living her life and because of the person that she was as a person, that this person would probably be someone I would want to know, it would probably be someone that I would actually want to have in my life because, again, the woman that she is.

Maddy: [59:37] that really says something about her. That’s an amazing way to see your partner.

Mikaal: [59:41] and if you’re not and if you don’t feel that way if there isn’t that trust why are you with that. I think that’s a lot of, that’s the hardest pill to swallow I think for a lot of us it’s like well if you’re struggling all the time and you’re having a hard time and there’s all these difficulties why are you with that person? Justin and Londin always talk about this you know and Dieda to we always attract our reciprocal and what that means is you know and you seem to have done a lot of a lot of your own personal work to identify that well I tend to attract people that aren’t available because I’m actually afraid of deep connection. So, getting into the why we’re attracted to what we are attracted to and our relationships being sort of I don’t want to say battleground because that implies something but just the training ground, the testing ground for us, undoing all of our conditioning and really having an opportunity to see if we’re real what we are really attracted to because so much of I think what we’re attracted to what we think we want in our life in general, but specifically to relationships is conditioned is what our mom told us was okay and what our dad told us wasn’t and we’ve adopted those ideals and now we think they’re ours. So, diving into really diving in whether poly whether open whether monogamy gives us an opportunity to really discover who we are in the world, and just in general you know, it was, it was tough because all of my teachers are monogamous and they sort of preach it as a gospel in a way and I can really understand it. So, I was sort of, I was sort of the other guy, I was the guy that was doing poly and it’s, again I don’t believe one is better than the other I don’t believe one is superior than the other. I think both have a lot of value and you should follow what is right for you and again, if you’re being honest in real time I think any, any type of relationship can work it just requires that that willingness and that ability to be honest in real time and I think that in and of itself takes work it’s true for me.

Maddy: [01:01:52] Why monogamy now for you?

Mikaal: [01:01:55] because it was right and it was time, because this is the thing I could never sort of contend with when I was poly its like, wherever you’re sitting right now. Like, grab a couple different objects like pens off your desk like we have some tarot cards here so like here we have 1-2-3 we will say three, three different cards. Okay, put all of your attention on those three cards. No put all of your attention on all three of those cards. I’m going to, I’m going to remove two of these cards and there’s just one card now put all of your attention on that. Which is easier to do?

Maddy: [01:02:38] putting all my attention on the one card,

Mikaal: [01:02:42] right, because there’s, there’s just like physics right like there’s three things here so I guess by default in a way I can only put 33.3333% of my attention on any one of those things together if they’re all three they’re together. So there’s that and for me it’s like I’m at a point in my life where I I’m really craving focus I’m leaving New York like this sort of this space of all this different information all the stimulation all the time, the multiverse the multifaceted stuff, which is beautiful for some people, that’s the medicine but for me right now the medicine for me is singular. It is going into a single pointed awareness place of both my job and my business and what I’m doing, because my habit has been to be sort of this jack of all trades, master of none, which again there is nothing wrong though I’ve made it wrong for myself for a lot of my life but I want to sort of focus on one thing and see what comes. And then from there, if and when it feels right I can move on to something else but just putting all my attention one place right now there’s just even saying it there’s just a relaxation.

Maddy: [01:03:58] I feel that for you. Are you taking your woman with you to Colorado?

Mikaal: [01:04:00] she lives in Colorado. That’s sort of part of why I’m going out there.

Maddy: [01:04:08] how close are you going to be to Boulder?

Mikaal: [01:04:09] very close, she’s in, we’re going to be in Denver like yeah she’s from Fort Collins. It’s like a yeah like a little triangulation of space up there.

Maddy: [01:04:21] that’s where I lived for the past six years, just moved here from Boulder. Actually it has been a year now since I moved and that’s exactly what my life was full of just stillness, that’s when I was really dedicated to that my meditation practice, very calm business was like the main priority of my life now it is all the things; where you live really dictates a lot. All right, see if I have any other questions around that. I think, I think I want to ask you that divine deep dive round questions now. Before I ask you those where can people connect with you online?

Mikaal: [01:05:19] I do have a web page, I made it myself, and it only took me, you know, a year. It’s mikaalbates.com but you can find me on Facebook I’m pretty informal, I am I don’t have, well let me let me put it this way I like personal interactions and the work that I do is very individuated for the person. I don’t necessarily have a set prescription and structure that I follow I have a loose one but I love to sort of dive in with people where they’re at and sort of create pathways for growth and I do a lot of men’s work, a lot of men’s work, sort of, actually I should I should throw this out; tribe online community men’s community is a group that I work with Justin’s men’s group Justin Patrick Pierce, Dave Burns and Michael Holt, are all the founding members of tribe based in LA but I sort of Captain the New York City chapter here. Actually I’m going to be leading a practice at my place this Saturday, December 21st if you guys are in town from 12 to 2. Just for me this particular practice but I love working with women, I love working with people of all persuasions everything inside and outside again I’m an 11 year burner. I used to Bartend in House of Yes. Other are my people, so much so much gifts there I’ve learned so much about myself and just the world what it means to be other and different and such a thing to be celebrated and again, it’s like, I just love it it’s like this sort of inside joke for me and sort of like the gender identity conflagration right now the argument around it that you know it’s both. It’s both like it’s biological and its cultural, both are true. There are, it’s just such a, it’s just such a wonderful moment for humanity I feel like so many things being shifted you know the sort of 5000 year thumb that has been pressed on the back of women is coming off in a major way and there’s so much movement happening so fast and the feminine is rising and just this astronomical wonderful way and there’s a lot of difficulty around it too but just like this the acceptance and recognition of other ness as well, and how beautiful that is and we can use to a lot of people you know a lot of people do identify with masculine feminine they do identify with men and woman I think the statistic by like 99% of people do identify with the body that they’re in but then there’s also this other group that has so many different aspects to it and so many different variables, an infinite number of variables, what a thing to celebrate and just be a part of it. Again I think it serves a purpose and it’s not a purpose that I want to serve I want to I want to serve I don’t know love I guess, I don’t know how else to put it.

Maddy: [01:08:48] I love all of this. Spoken like a true House of yes-er. If anyone doesn’t know what House of Yes is you have to come to New York City. I will have all of his links that he just mentioned on the show notes to this maddymoon.com/Mikaal-bates you could check them all out at there. Divine deep dive round. What’s the best investment under 10 grand you’ve made in 2019?

Mikaal: [01:09:29] wow, under 10 grand? Holy smokes. I went to an ecstatic dance retreat in Guatemala back in January and that was a pretty incredible. Pretty incredible experience; Justin and Londin’s work, sacred intimacy, you know, please, please, please do yourself a favor and check them out. They are the best at what they do and they are they’re the best, and the two body practice and the relational space, as they call it sacred intimacy, they have a yearlong program that is still available, I believe, four different weekend intensives in Los Angeles and Topanga Canyon in this beautiful, beautiful space. They’re just masters at what they do and they teach from what they know, they don’t pretend to put any platitudes or crap out there they are just so authentic it is incredible and they just teach from the living emanation of 10 years in relationship,

Maddy: [01:10:34] and that’s what I love about them, actually being in relationship with each other in their business

Mikaal: [01:10:42] they are also working on their second book right now but the one they have out now is the Awaken to Everlasting Love.

Maddy: [01:10:48] it’s one of my favorite books, it’s the book that I tell all of my clients to buy it’s like the number one first feminine masculine book. For anyone listening I had Londin on the podcast a couple years ago you can go to maddymoon.com/Londin-angel-winter. It was probably two years ago and it was a really good interview and I need to have her back on.

Mikaal: [01:11:09] they had their kid. Yeah, Londin, 47, I just want to put that out there. A healthy child and Londin is absolutely brilliant at exercise Science nutrition and I think just, I don’t want to, I don’t want to blow up her spot too much I don’t know if she wants attention but I think she could certainly have it if she wanted to just sort of how to, how to, how to nourish your body and how to sort of just be she’s just such a incredible human being sort of, just at a loss for words.

Maddy: [01:11:41] you have to listen to her, you have to know or you have to check out her work. If you were an inanimate object what would you be and why?

Mikaal: [01:11:44] I would want to be a mountain range, I think a mountain. Yeah, like maybe in the, I don’t know the high Sierras or the Himalayas.

Maddy: [01:12:03] what’s the best book you read in 2019?

Mikaal: [01:12:06] that’s hard. Can I say more than one? Justin and Londin’s book is there for sure. God, I mean I re-read way of the superior man, David Dieda’s work, which I think a lot of people sort of find controversial but I really encourage a thorough reading of it. A thorough reading of his work and I mean when I first found this stuff I just dropped onto his YouTube stuff and it’s just it’s such a wealth, such a wealth of stuff. I reread Iron John by Robert Bly which is my most important book of all time for me. Another controversial figure that I would recommend for everyone I think his work gets sort of categorized incorrectly, and often sort of dismissed. When I think it is actually some of the most out there if you really read it is Jordan Peterson’s book 12 rules for life. Oh, you should you should check them out. It is controversial but I find him to be an impartial I don’t know if you listen to his stuff but I don’t really see him, picking aside. I think he is mostly on we’re all human obviously we all make mistakes and I find him to be devoted to the truth, or at least empirically as a clinical psychologist it’s fascinating. His biblical lectures actually have been blowing my doors off, because it’s a psychological interpretation of the biblical stories and they actually makes sense, and I listened and it’s messing me up because I’m like I think I might be a Christian what’s happening but then it’s like I was Nietzsche’s quote like there was only ever one Christian and he died on the cross, which is kind of how I’ve always felt about Christians. They’ve changed my life. Honestly, I mean it’s not in book form but Jordan Peterson’s biblical lectures, yes. They’re incredible, and they are about two and a half hours each and I think there about 17 of them. So for my drive to Colorado I’m going to be sort of checking that out.

Maddy: [01:15:06] if you had to choose one type of food to eat for rest of your life, like the rest of your life right one type of, it can be a single food or it can be a dish.

Mikaal: [01:15:19] I think individually sushi has always been my favorite, but I don’t think I could eat it every day so I would have to say Mexican. So like tacos have a lot of different ingredients so I got different things I could fit into my taco. I’m gonna go with tacos, there’s gonna be like grass fed ground beef on there for sure, probably, definitely avocado. I heard avocado is the, the food that you could survive the longest on that it’s the most complete food. It is actually avocado I think you would eventually die because I don’t think there’s vitamin C in avocado, and you could eventually die from scurvy or something like that but I might be completely wrong.

Maddy: [01:16:13] there’s a show on Netflix that talks about the like the black market behind foods and avocados people have actually died and been killed, but if we boycott them like a lot of people like that’s a big way of making money in Mexico right.

Mikaal: [01:16:50] yeah it’s really tough. It’s not just, there are a lot of variants to it because people that make a living doing that but yeah there’s been talk of boycotting Mexican avocados, but almost all those come from Mexico. Yeah, I’m not I don’t feel educated enough on the subject to talk about it but avocados are frickin amazing.

Maddy: [01:16:55] alright, last question because you are an actor if you were to play a character a role in any movie that already exists like you’ve seen a movie, and you watch this character and you are like that’s the one I want to play; what would it be?

Mikaal: [01:17:13] I mean, how do I answer that, I mean, it would be either Neo in the matrix Keanu Reeves or Trinity, in the matrix, that’s the lady. Maybe Brad Pitt in Fight Club.

Maddy: [01:17:59] I could so see you be in the matrix

Mikaal: [01:18:08] maybe Daniel Day Lewis, in the last of the Mohicans because that’s kind of my favorite movie of all time because I was in, it was the first R rated movie I was allowed to see I think I was in 7th grade so it made a pretty big impression on me I was also completely in love with the younger sister in that movie.

Maddy: [01:18:23] I watched when I was a kid, you know, everyone keeps on saying in the acting world like Daniel Day Lewis is a huge deal and I don’t really know who he is.

Mikaal: [01:18:45] it’s worth checking out. It’s one of the two films that I think are actually better than the book and the book is great it’s very different, they change it a ton of it, but it’s the film is actually better than the book, the other one I would say it’s actually fight club and Pontiac is one of my favorite authors of all time. I’ve already noticed, half of your books are like his stuff, but there’s something about the film that getting to sort of see the, the condition between, you know his psyche and sort of what’s happening and the projection and it is just fucking perfect. The matrix and fight club came out the same year, I think it was my freshman year in high school, or no in college and it was like they came out within months of each other and I just remembered like I just sat in theater after both of the films I just sat there they turn the lights on, they’re like, sir, you need to leave now, sir and I was just so blown open. I literally left the theater then went and bought another ticket and went right back in and saw it again.

Maddy: [01:19:51] Mikaal, thank you so much for coming.

Mikaal: [01:20:03] thank you for having me, I could keep talking for hours.

Maddy: [01:20:07] this conversation is not done yet, we will have to have you back on. Everyone get the show notes to get the links to get the full transcripts for this episode that means every single thing we talked about written out you can highlight it, you can save it all of those things. I’m excited about that you can go to maddiemoon.com/Mikaal-bates and you can get everything over there. How’d you like this episode? Let us know you can comment on the show notes or you can go to Instagram, you can send us an email or comment on Instagram and tag us both we would love to know what you learned from this and we’ll see you next week for another great episode on the Mind Body Musings Podcast.

Mikaal: [01:02:52] boom.

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