Episode 287: Debra Silverman is part astrologer, part psychologist, part comedian, and ALL REAL. She helps people turn on their own inner observer, to see the things they say and do in a totally objective way. Debra has been in private practice for over 40 years. She uses astrology and her own system called the The 4 Elements (or 4E for short) as tools to help people step into their power. Debra’s mothering approach to understanding and empowering people from all walks of life has earned her international fame and admiration. She has written a book, magazine columns, hosted a radio show and has a YouTube channel with over 7 million views. She is dedicated to creating community and working for the children. Debra Silverman believes the future is arriving and none of us can do it alone. She is an expert in embracing the feminine, and her ultimate dream is to revolutionize therapy by teaching therapists how to provide custom treatment to their clients. Debra Silverman believes in the power of listening. When we are silent – both with ourselves and each other – the messages that are trying to come through us can be given a voice, and we can all start walking our authentic and powerful path. She splits her time between Kauai and Boulder, Colorado where she enjoys talking to the beautiful flowers, daily swims and spending time with friends and family. 

Show notes:

  • Astrology is 5,000 years old.
  • “You don’t have to believe in astrology; it believes in you. It doesn’t matter if you believe in it.”
  • What pisses Debra off about astrology.
  • “There’s no divorce in heaven. You are stuck with you across all time.”
  • The interesting and quirky part of Debra’s chart and her personality.
  • The history of astrology and how it helped men make major decisions back in the day.
  • The interesting aspects of Madelyn’s chart.
  • Debra’s online school – Meet the Planets: http://maddymoon.com/appliedastrology
  • Debra’s specific prayer that she uses daily for “womanifesting.”
  • How Debra finds pleasure in her body daily.
  • How to keep astrology simple and the most important planet to look for.
  • The “YumYum factor” as medicine and why the vibrancy of life is so important for her. 
  • Ask yourself: “where’s pleasure leading me to today?”
  • The Piscean Age vs the Aquarius Age and what it means for us today.
  • How to get the joy factor back in your life.
  • “Everything changes when you start putting consciousness on the smallest thing that gives you pleasure.”
  • Why Debra resonates with being a spoiled brat and why she’s okay with that.
  • The Missing Element: https://amzn.to/2sSQoQi
  • Must-read book: The Afterlight of Billy Fingers by Annie Kagan https://amzn.to/2sYL25X
  • The Star Community: https://www.thestarcommunity.com/

Connect with Debra:

COACHING: receive personalized, 1:1 coaching from Maddy Moon to create your own feminine and masculine embodiment. Heal your heart, build confidence, create an online business (if that’s a goal!) or simply feel happier. Apply here: http://maddymoon.com/coaching

FEMININE SPIRIT SCHOOL: this school is the one-stop-shop for all things feminine energy! If you’ve been wanting to embody the feminine but feel stuck on the how, this program will take you through the entire realm from start to (well…we’re never really finished, are we?). Learn about the feminine/masculine, shadow sides, ancestral healing, boundary setting, empowerment, sensuality and sexuality, sovereignty and so much more. Sign up here: http://maddymoon.com/feminine-spirit


Madelyn: And we are back with another episode of the Mind Body Musings podcast, with your host Madelyn Moon.  This year, 2020, makes the sixth year of having this podcast show, launching and releasing an episode every single week, recording episodes nonstop.  I don’t even know if I’ve had one week where I haven’t recorded an episode in a very long time, maybe years.  Every once in a while I’ll definitely take it down a notch in regards to how many I schedule in a month, but this just lights me up so much, and I hope you feel that on your end, listening to these conversations.

In the past month I have taken it up a notch in my intentionality around the show, meaning I have added transcripts into the show notes.  I’ve been getting new branding for the show, getting my quotes together from each episode, so that when I share quotes from the episode on Instagram, we really choose the ones that hit home for you.

I have been choosing guests very intentionally, based off of how much I’m genuinely curious about their work.  That’s what brought Michael Bates on the podcast, Marya Stark, Dominick Quartuccio, and soon John Gray, who is a fabulous relationship writer.  You’re going to be hearing from him very soon.  I’m going to be getting some people on the podcast to talk about near-death experiences, NDEs.

And then today we have Debra Silverman on, who is phenomenal.  She’s very well known in the astrology world.  If you have studied astrology from teachers, or you watch YouTube videos, or you’re interested at all in astrology or read blogs on it, you’ve most likely come across Debra’s work.  She is part astrologer, part psychologist, part comedian, and all real.  She helps people turn on their own inner observer to things they say and do in a totally objective way.

Debra has been in private practice for over 40 years.  She uses astrology in her own system called The 4 Elements, or 4E for short, as tools to help people step into their power.  Debra’s mothering approach to understanding and empowering people from all walks of life — very important, right there — has earned her international fame and admiration.  She has written a book, magazine columns, hosted a radio show, and has a YouTube channel with over 7 million views.  That’s so many.  She is dedicated to creating community and working for the children.

Debra believes the future is arriving, and none of us can do it alone.  She’s an expert in embracing the feminine, and her ultimate dream is to revolutionize therapy by teaching therapists how to provide custom treatment to their clients.  Debra believes in the power of listening.  When we are silent, both with ourselves and each other, the messages that are trying to come through us can be given a voice, and we can start walking our authentic and powerful path.  She splits her time between Kauai and Boulder, Colorado, where she enjoys talking to the beautiful flowers, daily swims, and spending time with friends and family.

Today’s show is just such a delight in what we talk about.  We talk about astrology in many different aspects, but as you’ll on the podcast, I told her beforehand — I told her assistant, “Don’t worry about reading my chart.  I want to make sure that everything we talk about is totally applicable to everyone listening.”  We end up pulling up my chart, but we’re going to be spending the majority of this episode talking in a way that’s going to be a web, a net, that’s going to bring everyone in.  So it’s a very inclusive conversation.  Even though we talk a bit about my chart, it’s not going to be just about me.

This episode is really about Womanifesting, creating your own dreams, creating your own desires, and making shit happen through you.  “Through Womanifesting,” is how she likes to call it.  And we talk about — the Yum-yum factor is something that she refers to, of adding more Yum-yum factor into our life, which means, “Mm, ooey gooey yumminess.”  But most of all what I love about this episode is just being in the presence of Debra.

You know, sometimes I listen to episodes, and I fall in love because of who the guest is, not what they’re sharing — as insightful, and important, and awe-inspiring as what she has to share is.  It’s who is that I really love, and who I’m kind of addicted now, and who I want — if I’m going to be learning from astrology, I mean, it’s going to be Debra.  Let’s be honest.  It’s definitely going to be Debra now moving forward.

In today’s show we are going to be talking about her program called Applied Astrology.  This is a program that Debra created specifically with her psychology intertwined with astrology, intertwined with the Yum-yum factor, intertwined with everything being a very individual game plan, and how everything to you is going to be really unique, compared to somebody else.  I mean, it’s because it’s in the stars.  It’s because it’s in your body, and Human Design, and astrology, and psychology.

All of these things come together to make you, you.  That’s why you may love people differently.  You may have different portions of introvert versus extrovert.  You may want to build a business differently.  Maybe you love funnels and staying behind the screen, or maybe you can’t stand that, and everything you want to do needs to be in person.  Maybe you want to be teaching people on a large scale and get all these Instagram followers, because that really serves your personality.  Or maybe it’s a small scale, where you really don’t even need to have an Instagram to powerfully serve people.  And astrology helps you know this about yourself.

One of the things you probably already know — and if you don’t, we’re going to go into this today on the show.  But astrology is determined by planets.  How are you going to know about your astrology if you don’t know the planets?  So she’s come up with a three-part video training series called Meet the Planets, and in Meet the Planets she will introduce you to the basics of astrology, as well as teach you how to access your natal chart.  She will teach you the beginning steps in discovering what your natal chart has to say about your personality, your soul, and your purpose.  She’ll teach you a description of what each of the planets represent, which is awesome, having that very straightforward understanding of each planet, rather than a ginormous blog post you have to sift through to find your answers in.

She’ll teach you where Mars is in your chart, and how to reignite your get-up-and-go energy, for all those goals that you’re setting for 2020.  And then she will teach you how to find Jupiter in your chart, and what that says about your fun factor and your joy.  So if you’re ready to check out the Meet the Planet video series — because today episode 2 comes out.  She’s already got the first one out, and now the second one is coming out, and then finally you’ll have access to third one.  Today marks the day that the second one comes out.

So if you want to get both of those videos, you must go to maddymoon.com/appliedastrology, and that will take you right to the place to sign up.  I am an affiliate for Debra, so anytime you sign up through me — and let’s say you really enjoy it, and you eventually want to work with Debra.  I get a little bit of credit for it, which is a wonderful way to support the podcast, really, truly.  Doing the six years, one of the best ways to support the podcast is to support me via you loving the guests I bring on the show.  So if you want to get all this free juicy stuff, all you have to do is go to maddymoon.com/appliedastrology.  Sign up on there.

I will also have a link to that in the show notes to this episode, as always.  You know me.  I am prepared.  It’s that Virgo rising in me — very, very prepared and structured, which brings me to my next point.  If you are listening to this episode after January 15th, you can still sign up for this series, and you’re going to get more goodies.  You’re going to get all three videos, plus all the information that she has about her course, Applied Astrology.  The cart opens on January 21st.  The cart does not close until February 4th, 2020.  So you can sign up anytime before then.

Let us know what you think about this episode by going to maddymoon.com/debra-silverman.  Share your thoughts with us.  Leave a comment, or go to Instagram.  Tag us.  Let us know.  What did you learn?  What did you love?  What do you want more of?  That’s it for today.  Let’s head on in to this lovely interview with Debra herself.

[Pause for intro music 0:08:46 – 0:09:05].

Madelyn: Welcome to the Mind Body Musings podcast.  It is so good to have you here today, Miss Debra.  Like I told you, I’ve heard amazing things about you, and I’ve been all morning reading all your posts.  Every time you talk about, of course, Leos, I’m like, “Oh, yes, the vibrancy of wearing bright clothing,” and we’re in that Leo New Moon right now, and I love the way you write about it, and I love the way you write about all the signs, and how many different categories you go into with astrology, not just the astrology.  So I really appreciate that.

Debra:  Thank you.  Were you a believer in astrology before you met me?

Madelyn: I was.  Yes, I was a believer.  I think I got into astrology when I was in high school, and I’ve had a few astrologers on to the podcast.  And it blows my mind every time I hear anything regarding my chart, who I am, and looking at what I’ve set out to do in the world.  It’s pretty interesting, how my chart is in some regard a blueprint for what I’ve done with my life.

Debra:  It’s so interesting to me, and it’s so interesting to me that people read astrology all over the world.  It’s a universal language that’s transcended time.  It’s 5,000 years old — ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.  How could something that long survive, unless it had real merit?

Madelyn: 5,000 years old?

Debra:  Yeah, it’s ancient.  It’s from Mesopotamia.  It’s pre-Egyptian.  It’s in the temples in Egypt.  There are hieroglyphics on the wall that represent the same symbols we’re using now.  It’s one of the only things that survived.  And by the way, 5,000 from now, we’ll still be talking about astrology.

Madelyn: It’s really amazing, and I will say that astrology is also one of the things that — maybe we can get into this at some point today.  But I do have a little bit of eye rolling that happens with it, and I also fully believe it.  It’s interesting.  Sometimes when I hear about things happening in the planets, I’m like, “Oh, we’re not going to give power to that.  We set out, and we do what we want to do,” blah, blah, blah.

“We all have overlapping traits anyway.  You can make anything work.”  People say that stuff all the time, “Oh, that makes sense,” whenever they look at their chart, but then you find out you’re actually a different sign, and you’re like, “Oh, that makes sense.”  And that bothered me, and it doesn’t bother me so much anymore, but that’s one of those things I’ve noticed.

Debra:  No, it’s true, and I’m a skeptic, so I want everyone to hear that.  You don’t have to believe in astrology; it believes in you.  That’s my new line.  I made it up.  It doesn’t matter whether you believe in it.  It has a lifelong durability because it’s the architecture of the human psyche that sustains itself.  So when people talking astrology, what pisses me off is there’s so much jargon.  You start listening, and you’re like, “Pluto is conjunct Saturn, which is conjunct — Jupiter is going to — “

Why can’t you just say there’s a really significant time right now, for example, in the planetary experience about government.  It should be no surprise to any astrology that we’re in this really — all over the world, not just America.  All over the world we’re in a really kind of dismantling, ruckus time around government.  “Well, that’s not a surprise,” said Saturn, and Pluto, and Capricorn.

But it becomes a language — I love your point — that can either be an excuse, like, “Well, I can’t help it.  I’m a Scorpio, so I’m mean,” or it becomes a language that creates distance because there’s so much jargon, and people become exclusive.  When you astrologers talking in the corner, you’re like, “This is not English.  They’re talking a foreign language that left me out.”  Or it becomes a voice of compassion, and that’s my promise.  How do I help you fall in love with who you are, really come to peace with this character that you are that’s never going away?  Ha, ha.  There’s no divorce in heaven.  You are stuck with you across all time.

Madelyn:         Oh, I love that.  There’s no divorce in heaven.

Debra:  I made it up.

Madelyn:         That’s so good.  Okay, everyone, you’ve got to go put quotation marks on that and then go share it all around, because it’s really good.  I also love what you said, that astrology chooses you.  Yeah, that feels really good.

Debra:  And there’s [inaudible 0:13:18].  You are stuck with you.  Think about it.  You’re born with this funny little personality, and as the years go by it gets worse — just so you know, spoken by a true elder.  And the older you get, the more compassion you have, hopefully, for those parts of yourself that don’t seem to go away.  And there’s free will.  Any minute in the day can once again change the whole story.

Madelyn:         What is one of those funny little parts about you that you have, that you’ve grown into as the years have gone on, that you see kind of pop up here and there?

Debra:  I think one of the funny parts is that I am a funny mixture of being super social — because I am a Gemini, and so I have this versatility and this verbal skillset — but I am an introvert.  It took me years to figure that out, because people meet me and they’re like, “She’s so friendly, and she’s so lighthearted,” and they all want to be my friend, and I’m like, “Can we go now?”  At first I was self-conscious.

It was so unnatural to explain to myself, “Permission slip to leave.  Debra, you don’t have to go to the party,” but my little Gemini wants to go to the party, but the majority of my chart is like, “We’re staying home.”  So I came to peace with it when I realized, “Okay, so the criteria is — if the party has meaning, if we’re sitting in a circle, if there’s a real event happening where it’s a wedding and there’s going to be a focus, I’m all in.”  I figured it out.  It took me years.

If the party is random, and it’s casual conversation, it’s like nails on a chalkboard.  Some people are good at schmoozing, and I meet them, and I think, “I want what they have.  They can talk about the weather.  They can ask about the kids.”  I’m like, “Oh, my god, these are — “  That was a quirky part of my person.  It took me years to figure it out, and astrology definitely was the clincher.  I have a Gemini sun in the House of Scorpio, so I’m a crossbreed of superficial depth.  That’s funny.  No, I wish I had your chart because I would tell you one of your quirks, but you asked me not to look at your chart, so —

Madelyn:         Well, I didn’t ask not to.  I just said, “Don’t worry about reading my chart on the air.”  But ah, man, I wish — I might even have one already pulled up.

Debra:  Yeah, I can make you one.  While you’re talking, I’m going to plug you, baby.

Madelyn:         Okay, all right.

Debra:  Those magical things in astrology you never could — you know this?  It took hours and hours to calculate a chart.  In olden times it would be only for men because there was so much math involved, and now I push a button.

Madelyn:         It would be only for men?  That is so fascinating.

Debra:  There was like one woman astrologer.

Madelyn:         Who was the first woman astrologer?

Debra:  Me.

Madelyn:         You?  What an honor.

Debra:  That’s such a great question.  Well, there were wonderful astrologers from England.  England was a country where they kings used to do astrology.  I don’t know if you knew that.  This was really what it was used for, was in the kingdoms, of very high-level intelligence, would do strategy, using astrology to determine whether or not this was the time to go to war, for example; or whether or not this was the time for feasting or famine.  It’s kind of amazing when you think about it.  So they would track the timing.  I can’t believe it.  It’s so crazy.  Now I’ve got you, baby.

Madelyn:         You know everything about me now.  Boom.

Debra:  I’m sitting right here, and —

Madelyn:         The secrets.  Shh.

Debra:  I’m not telling.  I won’t tell the secrets because I’ve got enough Scorpio to respect your secrets.  I will be looking at your chart while we’re talking.

Madelyn:         I really love that you just brought some history into that.  I’m definitely a history geek, and I love hearing about things like this.

Debra:  You are?  So you’re similar to me.  Your chart is similar to me.  You have an extrovert, but a recluse.

Madelyn:         When you were saying that, I was like, “This sounds exactly the way I am actually.”  I spend a lot of time at home.  I love this right here; like me and you, we’re jamming, and we’re online.  But then when we’re done, we’re done, and then I get inside my bed and I read my book, and then I plan the next thing that I have.

Debra:  Did you know that you have this?  You have a lot of planets in the House of the Mystic.

Madelyn:         Yes, the 12th House, correct?

Debra:  The 12th House.  So that’s the real recluse.  That’s the person that wants to dream, and imagine, and envision things, and wants to be able to share their visions, but doesn’t necessarily want to go do it in the way that other people do it.  You’re like, “Shh.”  So a podcast for you, to get into [inaudible 0:17:50].

Madelyn:         Do you know much about Human Design?

Debra:  Yes.

Madelyn:         You’re probably really into that as well, I would think.  Yeah, you like that.  So I am a Projector, which also just ties in so perfectly that I like to keep to myself, and I like to do one-on-one work, and I can help see the big empire that someone else wants to build.  But I do not want to do a whole bunch of marketing funnels, and programs, and courses, in order to do that.  I’d rather just wait until that arrives to me, do that, and then let them go out and build their massive —

Debra:  It’s so beautiful that you know that about yourself.  That’s so wonderful, because Human Design, as the Enneagram, as astrology, are all tools to help us fall in love, and not try to be something we’re not.  When I think about — my social skill is so addicting to some people.  I’m the perfect person to take to a party because I get so interested in people, but I realize I didn’t have to, and that was liberating.  I’m a really confusing mix.  I’m like a little social butterfly.

Madelyn:         What’s your Human Design?

Debra:  I am a Generator.

Madelyn:         Oh.

Debra:  I manifest.  I call it Womanifesting instead of manifesting.  I am a very strong — I didn’t know that either until I learned.  I Womanifest.  My gift this lifetime is — that’s how my school — you know about my school?

Madelyn:         Yes.  Yes, but tell us anyway.

Debra:  I have an online school that happens twice a year, once in January and once in September.  And we have hundreds of students from all over the world, and I manifested this program.  It’s six weeks.  It’s once a week, like this, on Zoom.  Your chart comes on a screen.  There’s only ten people in the room.  And you study in depth your chart, and you need to know nothing about astrology — or you could be an advanced astrologer, but it’s the same course.

Because I am a psychotherapist, the class is designed to get you underneath the chart into a psychological conversation.  So it’s not, “Will I be rich when I grow up?  And will I find my husband?”  It’s more like, “Who am I?  How do I take care of myself, to be natural and authentic?  And then what’s the timing of my chart?”  You learn that in Level 1.  So that school, I Womanifested that, and honestly it was like a bar of soap fell out of me, like, “Whoop.”

I had been preparing, and studying, and teaching for so many years, that when it came time to Womanifest it — [snaps fingers].  And that’s one of my skills.  I don’t know how I did it, but I have literally a team of — there’s 40 people in my company, 25 of whom are teachers, mentors; and then 15 of whom are my employees now.  And I can’t explain to you, except to say this is unusual.  I Womanifested not by pushing — which I think so many women think they have to be boys to be in business — but by allowing the organic immersion of my dream, and it happened because I prayed.

Madelyn:         Any specific prayer, or did you just pray?

Debra:  Every day I prayed probably from when I was 20 years old until I was 60,000 years old.  I’m now in my mid 60s.  I prayed every day, “Let me be of service.  Use my life for the highest value.  I am yours.  Please bless me and protect me.”  So if you find your own prayer — you guys can steal that one, but if you find your own prayer and you use it daily, the angels are waiting.  I know it sounds New-Age-y, and it sounds woo-woo, but honestly Womanifesting occurs from not just the prayer, but — ready for this — devotion to pleasure.

On the back of my business card — you’re going to love this — it says The Pleasure of Being in a Body.  And I had that on the back of my business card for like 30 years, and no one ever says to me, “Why does a psychotherapist/astrologer have that?”  But I devoted myself to pleasure.  So, women, you do not have to be a boy to be successful.

Madelyn:         I love that you say a boy.  That’s just great.  I also love — how do I articulate this?  You have on your business card something about pleasure, and it doesn’t make sense, with quotation marks, in regards to psychotherapy and astrology.  But you, Debra, are like, “I don’t care.  I love pleasure.  I’m putting it on my business card.  Does it have the same word that’s in my branding?  No, don’t care, going to put it on there,” and it’s just you doing you.  It’s just so beautiful.

So many people are just like, “Okay, everything has to have the same colors and the same words, and the same branding needs to be on the little bottom-right side of my YouTube thumbnail.  It has to have the same image, and that same image needs to be in the corner of my website here,” blah, blah, blah — just like perfection, perfection in everything.  And I often think that kind of repels people.

What we want is you.  We want to feel you, what’s unique about you, the little quirks about you that you’ve already highlighted.  That is just one of those little examples I’ve already noticing that I really appreciate and love.  And I resonate the most with people who do things like that, that are what they want to do.

Debra:  You know why?  Because your life lesson this lifetime is — Aquarius is eccentricity.  You promised this life that you would not stand in the middle of the circle and look like everyone else.  Even though you’re a Leo and you want the approval, your life lesson is, “I’m a little strange.”

Madelyn:         Yeah.

Debra:  Isn’t that — no?

Madelyn:         Yeah, and that’s because my what is in Aquarius?

Debra:  Because your Saturn — this is the most important thing that you guys can hear on this podcast.  There’s so much astrology out there.  Oh, my god.  I watch those people talking, and I get confused.  Literally I listen to their videos, and I’m like, “Did she just say your Neptune is opposite Venus, and the 3rd House is squaring her moon in the 2nd?  Because I didn’t get any of that.”  But if you simplify it, which is what I do, you look for your Saturn.

Saturn is the most important planet.  It describes why you’re here as far as what you came to learn.  And you were born with Saturn in Aquarius, and I’ve got one more piece of advice for you.  In spring of this year, 2020 — right down the corner, 60 miles east of here — you are going to enter Saturn return.

Madelyn:         Yes.

Debra:  And your life lesson is, “I don’t have to follow.  I don’t have to fit in.  I don’t have to be, quote, unquote, normal.” So anyone born from 1991 to the end of ’93, they all have that life lesson.  You don’t fit into your family.  You don’t fit in with your friends.  You don’t fit in with your collective.  You became the individual if you were willing to be yourself to say, “Why don’t you put on the back of your business card something that doesn’t even fit?  And then I’ll like you more.”

Madelyn:         Wow.  That’s a really good tidbit for me to know for my coaching, whenever I’m speaking with people around my age.  That’s fascinating.  I didn’t know that, but it makes so much sense, because the very first coach that I hired, that I wanted to work with, he wrote a book, a very eccentric guy with long curly hair, looked like Jesus — so much like a really beautiful sexy Jesus.  If you’re listening to this, hi, Jake.

His YouTube videos were just like him holding it, and not high-quality at the very beginning, and he was just talking into it.  It would just be a five-minute video of him rambling, not very polished, like, “The top five — “  No, it was just like, “You go out there, and you do your dreams.  Let’s all just do our — “  Just kind of all over the place, and his marketing was getting a white Microsoft page that was like big letters in red, and then different-sized fonts, and just not put together at all — no logo, no footer, no nothing.  I loved the crap out of him.

Even his emails, he would write me things, and it wasn’t punctuated correctly.  There weren’t capitalized first letters of the words that needed to be.  And even that, I was like, “I dig you because you’re doing things differently and kind of immature, and it feels good because it feels raw.”  And everyone that I’ve worked with since, various levels of polish, but they don’t stress about getting back to people on time, or fitting into molds.  Everyone I’ve worked with is not a mold-fitter.  So thank you for sharing that with me, because it resonates with me, and that’s kind of how I want to be in my business as well.

Debra:  And that’s part of what your podcast is, is encouraging individuality and letting people show up.  So on the back of my business card — back to that — that one person all those years noticed.  Like, “What does this mean, the pleasure of being in a body?”  If I’m going to be on this planet, if I’m not doing the Yum-yum factor, if there’s not something delicious nearby — granted, I work, because I’ve got a big company with a lot of — they’re all women.  I work with only women.  And I encourage them to think about the pleasure of being in a body, and making sure this place is delicious.  So it’s not just harsh.  It’s hard enough being on this planet.  If I can’t have fun here, I’m going home.

Madelyn:         Tell me more about the Yum-yum factor in your life.  What are some of your Yum-yum anchors.  You’ve got to have these Yum-yums.

Debra:  Starting at the top, I start the day with burning my favorite incense.  I have this incense I love.  It’s Blue Pearl, called Cedarwood. It smells like chocolate chip cookies.  So I start the day with Yum-yum smells.  And I have my favorite candle that I travel with because it smells so good.

Then all my sheets, and my pillows, and my clothes — I only wear things that make you go, “Mm,” whether it’s cashmere, or whether it’s the best bamboo sheets.  And it doesn’t have to be so expensive.  Or even when you get those big puffy — because I live part-time in Colorado — down jackets.

But they have to — when you touch it — everything — when I go into stores, I touch everything, and I smell it. So if it’s not sensual — and I can’t figure out people.  If my shoes aren’t giving me a hug, they have to be taken off.  I don’t really understand why people allow themselves to not be comfortable.

Madelyn:         Spoken like a true Boulderite and Kauai-ite.

Debra:  And that is why I live in Boulder and Kuai.  Give me a place to live where the sun will give me kisses.  I made this a very concrete skill that I’ve practiced throughout my lifetime, because my life was hard.  So this comes to me as medicine.  Yum-yum factor is medicine.  What will it take in this life?  And even eating — I have never eaten meat since I was very young.  But when I eat — like last night we had these Brussels sprouts.  I don’t know what they did to them, but I make sure that I eat them really slowly.


Madelyn:         Oh, a crispy Brussels is like the best, yeah.


Debra:  That was it.  So everything in this life, I’m very deliberate about the sensual, the healthy, the vibrancy, the aliveness.  And that makes me feel like I like being alive.


Madelyn:         Yeah, pleasure is like — once you start — about two years ago one of my main practices was to ask myself in the morning — because I was so in my structure, and I wanted to get out of that.  So I started asking myself, “Where is pleasure leading me today?”  And it was scary, but I would just see, like, “Okay, instead of counting my macros with my food, and going to the gym this way, and just doing things on autopilot, I would see, ‘Where is pleasure leading me?’”

And oftentimes it would lead me to working in bed.  I’d still be working, but I’d be doing in bed on a nice soft texture, opening the windows so I could feel the breeze.  And something is so erotic about strawberries, just plain strawberries.  Biting into a strawberry and then observing it half-bitten is one of my favorite things.  Add that, in the bed, with the blinds open, and it’s like, “Oh, yes, so much goodness.”  Oh, yeah.

Debra:  And I think our society — as women particularly, but men too.  We were taught in the past to be austere, and that you had to wear these little tight corsets, and that you had to put on all this makeup and spray your hair, and that you had to create this image that was so tight and so contracted.  And now we live in a world where — this is the Aquarian Age, by the way.  That was the Piscean Age.

In the Piscean Age, which was 2,100 years, you had to live a life that was following the norm, and the norm was sacrificed.  Even the symbol of Christ, which was the essence of the Piscean Age, he was sacrificed.  That was that last movie.  Now we just changed in the 1960s to the Aquarian Age, and now the sky’s the limit.  Okay, you guys, honestly, anything goes.  You can be yourself, and there’s no right or wrong anymore.

So, off with the corsets, and they burned their bras.  This was the 1960s when the transition happened.  And then drugs became — like now the ingestion of CBD and THC is — I live in Colorado.  I’m like, “What?”  I remember being so scared.  You were never allowed to have that pleasure, or being allowed to let yourself — CBD, who even heard of that?  And now it’s everywhere, so we’ve changed.  The Aquarian Age is here.  You can go to a store.  I’ll never forget this, going in Colorado to the store and seeing marijuana in boxes on the counter.  Like, “Did we just move into the future?  Did the plane go so fast, and no one told me where we were going?”

Madelyn:         By the way, I just moved from Boulder.  I’ve been there the past six years of my life.  Yeah, I just moved.  I just moved to New York this year.

Debra:  Wow.

Madelyn:         Yeah.

Debra:  You know.

Madelyn:         I know.  Oh, yeah — ah, Boulder.  And I was thinking, “I wonder where she got those Brussels?  Have I been there?  Have I been to this Brussels sprout place?”  Where’d you get your Brussels sprouts?

Debra:  Well, right now I’m in San Francisco, and I was [inaudible 0:31:43] Mill Valley last night.  My sweetie lives here.  I don’t even know the name of the restaurant, or I would tell you.  But Boulder is a pleasureful place.  It has the sunshine.  That’s the other thing.  I am very responsive to weather, and I make a conscious effort to acknowledge the sun coming up, the sun going down.  I make a practice of really [unintelligible 0:32:02].  I think we’ve lost the pleasure of being in a body, because we’ve lost the sacred.  So for me, lighting a candle, lighting incense, putting on my favorite music — that’s one of my Yum-yum factors.

Madelyn:         Yeah.

Debra:  I’m sure you know Trevor Hall.  He’s one of my heroes.

Madelyn:         Yes, I’ve had him on the show actually

Debra:  He’s one of my kids.

Madelyn:         Yeah, he’s given me lots of quotes in that one episode that I just now kind of rely on, of life lessons.  I just would love to be a fly on Trevor Hall’s walls just one day, to listen to the way he talks on a regular basis, and what wisdom pours out of him.

Debra:  He studied astrology.  He’s an astrologer now.

Madelyn:         Oh, it’s from you?

Debra:  Yeah.

Madelyn:         Oh, okay.  Now I see.  Amazing.

Debra:  He moved to live closer to me.  We have a very family-like relationship with he and his wife.  His life lesson and my life lesson are the exact same degree, so when we met, there was this like, “Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.”  On my 60th birthday, which was three years ago, in front of a huge audience — I didn’t know.  I was there on my birthday to one of his shows.  He actually brought me up to the stage — I didn’t know it was going to happen — with a cake.

Madelyn:         Stop.

Debra:  No.  I couldn’t even talk.  I just started crying.  I was so emotionally — yeah, that was a moment of my life I’ll never forget.

Madelyn:         That’s love.  I just feel nothing but like — to be able to take your time, to slow down, to get to know someone who’s not just your significant other, your mom, your dad — to see and feel a soul connection with someone, and truly and nurture and care with that relationship so much, to the point that you honor them publicly, or gift them.  Even if it’s not a singer — following up with your friends when you know they’ve had a bad day is one of my favorite small ways to just say, “I see you.”  But those kinds of connections, that kind of love from someone, like the soul connection —

Debra:  Oh, he is one soulful being.  That’s another Yum-yum factor.  I put Trevor Hall on, and I feel so much better.

Madelyn:         I love what you said, too, just about — we lose pleasure because we have lost the sacred, and that feels really true.  That feels very, very true.  Being able to connect with the bottom, the soles of your feet on the hardwood, or feeling the sun on your skin, the miracle of little creepy-crawly critters that are helping our ecosystem move along, and your little dog’s heartbeat and his chest raising when he’s breathing.

These things are all around us, these beautiful things, and when we live in our world up here in the head, instead of in your lower body — like in our yoni, in our breath, in our lower abdomen or belly.  Again, the other thing you said about constricting, right, where you’re constricted and got so tight, that our cervixes got tight, and we became energetically anal, and that’s part of the lineage as well.  This is something that’s been dropped into my life recently, so I don’t know much about it.

But the lineage of the straight white female woman in this culture has learned how to get tighter, and taller, and be in your head, and rise up, and all of these kinds of things, as part of the white privilege.  I’m not going to go into that right now, but it’s really interesting how all of that is tying in, the corset, the get taller, be this, be this, and now we’re just like, “Actually, let’s get closer to the soil, and let’s sit back down, and breathe deeper, and be amongst connection, and people, and the world.”

Debra:  I remember my grandmother putting on a girdle.  I remember wearing nylons, this really unnatural substance.  I remember being told that you weren’t allowed to have fun, like, “Debra, stop it.”  So there is this transition of the feminine in her naturalness.  I loved what you said about just being able — if we all, in this podcast, took responsibility that when you drink your tea, or you have your glass of wine, or you have your glass of water, or you’re entering into brushing your teeth, if you really took the time — this is the pleasure of being in a body and realizing there’s 7.7 billion people here.

Everyone you ever knew is here, and they’re on the edge of their seats, people, beings, going, “Let me in.  Let me in.  I want to go down there.”  Why?  Because this is the most exciting time in herstory.  I don’t call it history anymore.  We’ve never had such an auspicious moment.  But we’ve got to return the sacred because we got so tight.  Someone told us we were supposed to be boys.  Isn’t that weird?

Madelyn:         Yeah.

Debra:  Somehow we thought that power meant — I mean, I love business, and I play a very tight ship, and I love being on time.  I respect time like it’s part of what I worship.  And to know how to be free and fluid, and have fun, and delicious, and scrumdiddlyumptious, these are things that things that cannot be left behind.

Madelyn:         Uh-uh.  Uh-uh.

Debra:  I love how you — I can just feel your sensual feminine delight and your JOY Factor — said the Gemini to the — and any of you listening to this who have lost the fun factor, the Yum-yum factor, the joy, it’s your job to recover it.  You have to ask yourself, “Where in life, in the smallest way, can I bring back the Yum-yum factor?”  I love that.  I made it up.

Madelyn:         It’s the best.

Debra:  Where can I bring back the Yum-yum factor?  Like when I eat, I’m way slower than everyone else.  I can’t believe it.  People eat like — you’re like, “Hold on a minute.”  You know why Goddess gave us three meals a day?  So we would really enjoy.  That was the point of the exercise, and then you can ask yourself — this is how you lose weight.  Then while you’re eating, you ask yourself, “Do I really need more, or am I really enjoying this bite?”  Everything changes when you start putting consciousness to how much pleasure the smallest thing gives you.

Madelyn:         Mm, yes.  Oh, I love that all of your references are to she, to shes, and, “Goddess gave us this.”  It’s amazing.  And yeah, it is everyone’s responsibility, because this world right now is not going to be like, “Prioritize pleasure.”  It’s going to probably say, “Keep going.  Hustle.  Do your thing.”  Even thinking about when I was in the bodybuilding world, there was so much praise and — what is the word I’m looking for?  Not praise, but —

Debra:  Encouragement.

Madelyn:         When you think you’re better than other people.

Debra:  Arrogance.

Madelyn:         It’s something else, but something along those lines.  But there was a lot of — it’s pride.  “Pride,” said the Leo.  There was a lot of pride around, “I don’t live to eat.  I eat to live.”  Instead of allowing both to exist, there was pride for bodybuilders to say, “Oh, I don’t need pleasure in my food.  I only eat so that I can look this way and live,” and that quote used to be all over Facebook and Instagram through that fitness world.

And somewhere along the way that got lodged in my head, too, of, “Oh, yeah, I only eat so that I can live.  I don’t really care about food.”  I can’t even tell you how many fights I would get into with a guy that I was dating when I was a bodybuilder because he would be like, “Do you like tacos?”  And my defense mechanism was so strong.  I’d be like, “Tacos?  Who likes tacos?  I only eat chicken breast and brown rice.”  I would get mad at him for asking me if I like tacos.

No, it’s falafels.  We had this one really big fight about falafels.  I was so ready to just tell the world to back off when it tried to give me pleasure.  And since then, six years later, it’s been my divine assignment to see how indulgent life can be.  Even right now, I don’t know if you can see this, but I’ve got like cheetah pants on, and I have this chair.  My work office chair is velvet.

Debra:  We’re from the same camp.  So you want to ask yourselves, people listening to this, “Where in my life — “  That’s such a great example.  “ — and my clothes — first of all, how much do I allow myself pleasure?”  That’s the first question.  You need to hear this loud and clear.  We are allowed in this lifetime to come down here and turn this exercise into an example of a being who is delightful.  Because your children, if you have them or don’t have them or are thinking of them, they’re watching you.

All that stands behind us is looking, so if we’re reprogramming that, “You know what?  You can do this life from a real ground-level pleasure place,” it’s such a radical departure.  I mean, I grew up — of course, Catholics and Christians have a very limited scope of what they’re allowed.  But even as a Jewish woman, there was a responsibility of being productive.  Everything was measured by your accomplishments.  That’s what I grew up with.  You had to meet these standards.

And now I’m saying, “I have met those standards.”  And you know what I do when no one’s looking?  I have fun, and I enjoy it, and I’m not doing it from a push; I’m doing it from the feminine, which is an organic celebration of taking a deep breath — welcome to yoga — making sure that I really slow down and look into the eyes of my beloved, like the dog.

Madelyn:         Yeah.

Debra:  When I pet that dog, I make conscious, conscious effort to say, “Your pleasure’s mine, and I really want you to know I’m in love with you.”

Madelyn:         I was holding my dog the other day.  We had just this moment of intense eye-gazing.  He normally is onto the next thing pretty quickly.  He’ll do it for a bit.  But he just was locking in with me.  We were sitting there, and this moment was so deep.  We were like in deep practice together of intimacy work, and I just started bawling, and I was like, “I love you so much.”  I was just telling him over and over, and I was legit, tears coming down my face, just telling him how much I love him, almost hyperventilating.

And then I was done, because for me, I’m very responsive to emotions.  I’ve trained myself to be sensitive again, after hardening the shell and learning how to be sensitive.  And I love — if I go too many days without having a moment where I am deeply in the beautifulness and the tragedy of life — because I’m a poet and I want both to exist.  I want to see the tragedy and the beauty.

Debra:  Oh, I could tell you were a poet.  That’s your chart, all those planets in the 12th House.  So your life is a poem.  No wonder you love words so much.

Madelyn:         Yeah, I do.

Debra:  And that is the essence of love.  It’s the poetry of words bringing us closer and closer to each other.  I love that.  So you write poetry for real life?

Madelyn:         I was talking to my friend about this the other day.  I write the most poetry, the best poetry, and I feel most alive in poetry, when I am in love.  And when I’m not — or I’m not heartbroken.  If I’m not heartbroken, and I’m not in love, I write blog posts.  I wrote blog posts; I write articles; I write Instagram posts.  And it’s like, the poetry, I have to dig really deep.  It’s more like that’s when life really — that’s when I feel the sunshine and the strawberries.

I’m in it, but then the writing mostly comes out when I’m either heartbroken from a man, or I am in love with a man.  That would be one of those things.  I would love to feel more in touch with that writing.  I haven’t had much of that since my last heartbreak.  And when I was in college, when I was actually incredibly depressed and anxious, and I was going through just probably about five years of really just hellish mental states — amazing poetry.

To me, I still think it’s amazing.  But fiction writing, yes; poetry, yes, on point.  And then when life is really quite smooth, and just easy-breezy, and taking names and accomplishing goals, poetry is like, “We’ll see you later.”  It just goes into the distance.

Debra:  It is the angst of the artist that brings the love of healing.  We go through pain, and then we seek healing.  But wouldn’t it be wonderful — this is back to the pleasure of being in a body — if we could allow ourselves to stop time and fall in love, not just with a man?

Madelyn:         Yeah.

Debra:  [Unintelligible 0:45:02] strawberry.  There’s something to be said, especially for women, about the sovereignty of being devoted to the Beloved, to really having a relationship with Spirit. That’s taken me many, many years, to take my attention off the other.  And then when the Other shows up, it’s like, “Whoa, Nelly, now we’ve got love,” but with or without the Other, I think that is the hardest thing of all for a woman.

It took me so — I was such a codependent.  I think now that that is the artist.  We are dependent on stimulus to bring us to our heart, but when the heart becomes our primary relationship — which, I swear to you now, it used to be — and this is what Einstein said, that being alone when you were young was — what was the word he used?  Being alone was lonely, and then being alone when you’re an adult becomes sacred.  You begin to cherish.  That’s what he said.  You cherish time when you’re an adult, when you’re in the depths of your own heart.

So isn’t it funny?  Because you’re young.  I mean, I’m double your age, and I can tell you it didn’t happen until I turned into a real-life grownup, which was in my 50s, that I found out that, “You know what?”  I had to fall in love with life, first of all.  I had an ambivalent relationship with this place.  As much as I love the pleasure, the pain-body of the sad parts of life really take me down.  I’m also a poet.  Any poet knows that the sadness here is so — my god.

But then when I realized, “Okay, Debra, you’ve got to stop with the indulgence of the pain-body, and you’ve got to transfer this to a conscious choice to wanting to be here as it is, and then really practicing,” which I do daily.  What am I in love with today?  Oh, today — just what you said — it’s the breeze.  I’ve literally grown into a mature version of love as a singular entity.  Now, it doesn’t hurt to be in love.  I have to say that’s really made a big difference.

But I was single for a lot of my life, and I really had to struggle with, “Can I be in love, without being in love with a person?”  And Trevor Hall’s music really helps.  You just pretend all of the things that you’re saying is to the Beloved.  Think of the Beloved as your higher self, who misses you, and longs for you, and feels like you don’t give her enough attention, and you don’t really devote yourself to her, and you don’t pray and ask her.  If there’s a part of you that’s missing you, it’s your higher self going, “Why don’t you ever lean into me?”  Good question.

Madelyn:         If you were going to personify this for you, this other Beloved, with a capital B, that is energy, that is She or He, how would you personify it?  What does this character look like to you?

Debra:  So beautiful.  It makes me want to cry.  I think of it as — first, I do have a feminine representation in my mind as the Mother.  It starts off as the Mother, like, “Please forgive me.”  I often say this, “Forgive me for not being appreciative.  Forgive me for stepping over my relationship with you and negating you.  Forgive me for how I treat the disrespect of this planet.”  So I have a very humbled relationship with the Mom.  I love to serve her.  I love to feed her.  My fruits of my life’s work is all in the name of me serving that which created me.

I think of it as the ones that created astrology.  Maybe it’s not just a feminine; it’s a council, sometimes I think of them.  And I say, “Please, thank you for the gift you’ve given me of astrology.  It’s such a beautiful system.  May I always give back to you with the same generosity you’ve given to me.”  Don’t ever let me — I ask for help, because I get a little arrogant.  I get a little spoiled.  Sometimes I complain, like, “I don’t — “  I watch it.

I go to yoga for the 400th time because I’m a yogi, and I’m in that same, “I’m in the Warrior I, Warrior II.”  And I think to myself, “Oh, my god, how many times — ?”  And I say, “Debra,” when I get to Savasana, “forgive me for being so arrogant that I’ve taken for granted the pleasure of being in a body, the privilege of being alive right now.”

And I have to work it because I have to say — I mean, maybe you could say this, but I could say I’m a little spoiled, the fact that I live in North America; every day I have running hot water and a toilet.  I try my best in the name of the Beloved to not take her and him, and them for granted.  And it’s a practice, because I am a little bit of a spoiled brat.  Are you?

Madelyn:         Oh, thank you for asking.  I am such a spoiled brat, definitely.  Yeah, I’m a spoiled brat, and I also see it, very similar to you, in that I can see my thoughts.  I was thinking about this this morning actually.  You could probably see I have these two little moles on my face.  I have one mole above my lip, and then I have a teeny-tiny one here.  It’s kind of like a little beauty mark Marilyn Monroe thing.  You know, Marilyn [unintelligible 0:50:09].

And sometimes I get little whiskers on it, a little facial hair, a little peach fuzz.  This is the first time I’ve ever talked about this.  But I was thinking about it today.  I was at the gym.  I was at Equinox.  I had my workout — a luxury gym, of course, and just had a hot shower, into the sauna, and I’m like, “Ah, I have to tweeze it.  I have to do that once a week.”

Debra:  Because you’re a Virgo rising.

Madelyn:         Tell me more.  So Virgo risings get peach fuzz?

Debra:  You’re picky.  You’re so gorgeous, and what do you note?  We can see those little things, by the way, just so you know.  Don’t feel bad, but no one here can see them.  This is so Virgo.  Oh, my god, you just disclosed a secret.  “I have a little facial hair.”  Raise your hand, ladies, if you have facial hairs.  Oh, look, everyone’s raising their hand.  You’re no longer alone, Madelyn.

Madelyn:         Spoiled brat — spoiled little brat.

Debra:  Yes, that’s a spoiled brat.  Your Virgo starts to criticize you and starts to get really caught.  That’s your [unintelligible 0:51:05], judging, being mean to you.  You’re gorgeous, and your little Virgo goes, “Uh-huh.”

Madelyn:         It’s really funny, too, when people come over to my place, especially — not unannounced because that doesn’t really happen.  But let’s say I see a friend outside, and they’re like, “Let’s hang out for a little bit.  I’m coming inside.”  I’m like, “Oh, okay,” and they come inside, and I immediately go into caretaking mommy mode, which is not fun, but I’m like, “Are you comfortable?  Is this okay?  Here’s the lint roller,” and I’ll quickly lint-roll the couch.  And I’m like, “Okay, is my dog okay?  Are you allergic to dogs?  Hopefully you’re not?”

Debra:  That’s the Virgo.  Welcome to Virgo.  Did you not know you were a Virgo rising?

Madelyn:         I do, but when I think of Virgo rising, I think of my structure, my calendar, and “on time.”  So tell me more.

Debra:  They look in the mirror, and they see the funny little mark on their lip, and they stare at it, and that’s all they see.  By the way, we can’t see it.  Did you know that?

Madelyn:         Well, it’s because I plucked it today, but —

Debra:  This is the funniest podcast ever.  We are going to get so many, “She disclosed the truth about her Virgo rising, and Debra talked a lot about this Yum-yum factor thing.  What is going on?”

Madelyn:         This is so much fun.  The show notes for this are going to be amazing.

Debra:  So the point of that story is your rising sign of Virgo makes you a beautiful woman.  Marilyn Monroe was Virgo rising, by the way — so was Julie Andrews, and so was Elizabeth Taylor, and so was — all the perfect-looking women are Virgo rising.  You’re in the club, blonde hair — look at you.  And they never think they’re pretty enough.  Isn’t that tragic?  So back to the point of the Beloved, if you close your eyes, when you asked, “What do I see?”  I think of it as a female at times.  I think of it as a mother and father at times.  But I always see the beauty with my eyes closed, and that takes you out of Virgo rising and those little hairs.

Madelyn:         Teeny-tiny little hairs on my face.

Debra:  It’s so cute.  And the truth of our love and making love — I think it’s so funny.  The lights are closed.  Our eyes are closed.  We are feeling our love.  We are not looking at our love.  But the external world is the most distracting.  Oh, my god, especially for you, for Leo/Virgo.  So you want to be careful because the right use of Virgo — which Mother Teresa was a double Virgo — is to think to yourself, “How can I be of service and see the purity of my heart?”

You’re doing these podcasts because you love to share with us your love.  It has nothing to do with how you look.  Thank god the podcast is not visual.  Tidbit: rising sign is what you see.  It’s called the rising sign.  It’s your higher self.  It’s also called the Ascendant.  Yours is Virgo.  You want to read about your rising sign and aim at it.  And the right use of Virgo is not the way things look, but the purity of the heart that loves to give and serve.

Madelyn:         That’s so interesting.  I love the way you just summarized the rising too: you’re rising into it.  Because I never thought of it — I always thought that the rising is how the world sees you, and then your sun is how you see you.

Debra:  It’s not true.

Madelyn:         Okay, not true?

Debra:  [Inaudible 0:54:14] our system.  The last thing I want to say to you is you have no water in your chart.  I have a book called The Missing Element. So you would go right to the water chapter, because there’s a questionnaire in the book that says, “Take this questionnaire and figure out your missing element.”

And once you know what it is, you open the book to that chapter, and your balance yourself out, because the belief is there’s four elements.  So you’re missing water, which is the sensitivity.  It’s so funny because it’s the poet.  But if you go towards water, you have to break your heart — that sounds terrible — or open it to get to your water.  But for you to practice sensitivity on a daily basis [inaudible 0:54:52].  That’s a practice for you, Virgo rising with no water.  And when you’re missing an element — that’s the name of the book, The Missing Element, which I sell on my website.  I sign them, and I send you a chart.

Madelyn:         Oh, I love that.

Debra:  [Inaudible 0:55:04] any of you want to get a book.  It’s a really strong practice, again, of figuring out how to balance, so you can get your system balanced, which creates more joy.  Because if you’re missing an element — water, air, earth, or fire — the whole thing goes [unintelligible 0:55:21].

Madelyn:         Is there a lot of people out there who are missing an element?  Is that kind of common?

Debra:  Most people, yes.  I would say the exception is the balanced one.  The majority of people are missing one of the elements.  The clue is — I’ll just briefly tell you.  If you’re missing water, like in your case, you just drink something.  If you’re missing water, it means that your emotional body is not easy to access without deep wounding.  It’s hard for you to feel until you really feel, so you can tend to be a little numb.  On the flipside of that, if you’re missing water, you can cry all the time, and never know how to stop that.  It goes extreme.

Madelyn:         I’ve done both.  I used to be totally unable to access everything, and now I cry like once-ish a day.  I love it though, but it’s not a self-indulgent pain-love.  It’s always a “tragedy plus beauty.”

Debra:  Like the dog, like being in love with the dog, crying your eyes out.

Madelyn:         Exactly, because I was crying because I wouldn’t have him forever.

Debra:  I know.

Madelyn:         I was crying about that, and then I was also crying because he’s just so freaking adorable, and loving, and beautiful.

Debra:  That’s good to hear because when you’re missing water, the fact that you — because some people can’t cry, and some people cry all the time.  If you’re missing air, it means that you either can’t find words, like people that can’t talk, and they don’t want to socialize; or they never stop talking, and you’re like, “Oh, my god, I know why God didn’t give you air.  If you had any more, we would never stop talking.”  So that’s another category.  It’s the verbal skillset.

The third one is earth.  If you’re missing earth, it means that you can’t do money or organization, and structure just bugs you; or you’re so fixated on money and structure that you can’t have fun.  So it always goes extreme.  And the last is fire.  If you’re missing fire, you don’t have the get-up-and-go to be really excited, and get passionate, and have orgasms, and jump up and down, because you just feel like you just don’t have the get-up-and-go.

Or you’re so loud, and the volume knob never goes down, and you have so much fire that you’re like, “Uh, can you turn that off?”  That’s the two-second version, but it goes deeper than that.  And you find out in the book, “What is my missing element, and how do I grow it to balance?”  Because I always pretend — I pretend.  There are four wheels on a car, four elements.  If one wheel is down, the whole thing — blah, blah.  So you need to have all four elements in balance.

Madelyn:         That’s so unique.  I’ve never even thought about that.  Okay, I’ll make sure I have the link to that on the show notes for this.  Can I ask you just a couple of divine deep-dive-around questions before we come to a close?

Debra:  Yes, please.

Madelyn:         Because we’re almost there, and I cannot believe it.  This has been the most fun podcast.

Debra:  [Inaudible 0:57:55].

Madelyn:         If you were a planet, which planet would you be?

Debra:  Can I have two answers?

Madelyn:         Yes, always.

Debra:  You ask everyone this, or you just made it up for me?

Madelyn:         It’s just for you.

Debra:  Okay.  I would definitely be Saturn because I am destiny-driven and very purpose-driven, and I’m only about wanting to save the healthiness of this planet.  So I have a very strong, serious — I mean, no one would recognize me if I was Saturn, but I’m seriously wanting to help.  So that’s Saturn.  But truthfully I think I’m ever better friends with Uranus, even though it sounds funny, because it’s the planet of the non-traditionalist who breaks all the rules.  It’s a revolutionist who never parks where it says don’t park, and always breaks the rules when it says don’t do this.  I do that.  I’m so bad.  So I have the split personalities of the Gemini.  On one hand I’m like super Saturn, and on the other hand I’m like crazy Uranus.  So I’d have to say both.

Madelyn:         And you are very funny, so it makes sense that you would have Uranus, the funny name, be one of your planets.

Debra:  I know.  Okay, question two.

Madelyn:         Okay, number two.  What do you want more of in life right now?

Debra:  You know, it’s not me.  I want the planet desperately to find some wisdom bodies, some wisdom keepers to assist us in this transition.  I am longing for the voices on the political front, on the news, on the Internet, inside of social media, to start offering kindness.  I’m really sad every time I hear anything that’s of disrespect, or anything to do with the dark.  It just hurts me.  So I wish I had more light that was affecting the collective in a way that had all of us breathing deeply, and sighing with relief, and anxiety and depression would go away because we’d say, “Oh, we’re in this together, and we all love each other.  What a nice feeling.

Madelyn:         There’s your Saturn, right?  That’s you Saturn planet.

Debra:  Yes.

Madelyn:         Yeah, I love that.

Debra:  I just want to help everybody.

Madelyn:         You just want to help.  Well, you’re doing a fabulous job, obviously.

Debra:  You too, Madelyn.  I feel like I’m doing the best I can, and because I promised to pace and never push, I’m doing it one person at a time.

Madelyn:         And then they’re spreading it off to other people, so it’s going much farther.  Okay, last question I’m going to ask for now.  What is your favorite book you’ve read this year?

Debra:  Oh, did you read the book — you would love it.  It’s called The Afterlife of Billy Fingers.

Madelyn:         What?

Debra:  You are going to love this book.  It’s a 12th House delight.  It’s a true story.  It’s written by a sister after her brother died, The Afterlife of Billy Fingers.  You guys are going to call me after and say, “Debra Silverman gave me the best book I’ve read in years.”

Madelyn:         Oh, my gosh.  I’m so excited.  I’ve never even heard of this.

Debra:  I know.  You’re putting in your bedroom.  I can see it now, in the 12th House, without your mirror, looking at your little hairs.  And you’re going to be reading that book, going, “Oh, my god,” and then you write to me, and you say, “Debra, that book changed my life.”

Madelyn:         I am so excited.  Okay, I will have that on the show notes for this as well.  And my very last question then, just about you —

Debra:  Oh, you already said that.

Madelyn:         I know.  I lied.  I lied.  I lied.  I lied.  I lied.  My very last question is — where can people connect with you online, and do you have anything — ?

Debra:  Oh.

Madelyn:         Yeah, this is a good question.  Do you have anything coming up they should know about?

Debra:  That’s a very good question.  There’s my school coming up in January.  It’s debrasilvermanastrology.com.  You go to my website, and you say, “Where’s the waiting list for her school?”  Then I have a platform called thestarcommunity.com, where for $20 a month you can come learn astrology, and every month is about that sign.  There are videos, and there are interviews.  Oh, my god.  And that’s about it.  I have The Star Community, and I have the school.

Madelyn:         Amazing, perfect.  I mean, honestly — and I truly mean this — I don’t think I would want to learn from anybody else because you are super funny.  That to me — and you’re you, and that feels so good, and we need that in the world, especially with astrology because there are a lot of —

Debra:  You know what?  Madelyn, if you want to take the class in January, we would give you a family rate.  You just let us know, because honestly it’s a game-changer, especially during Saturn return, which is in March for you, and the class starts in January.

Madelyn:         Oh, it’s March?  Oh, my gosh.  It’s coming up so soon.  Okay.

Debra:  So you need to know about your Saturn returns, so you take the class.

Madelyn:         Thank you so much.  That sounds beautiful.  And I will make sure I have —

Debra:  I’m going to follow-up on you.  I’m not going to let you [inaudible 1:02:30].

Madelyn:         Okay, please do.  Follow-up with me.  I’ve looked at your website several times, looking at these things, and I’m like, “Ooh, this looks really fun.  This looks really interesting.”  Yeah, this feels really good.

Debra:  I’m paging my assistant right now to offer you that class at the family rate.

Madelyn:         You’re the best.  You are the best.  You are such a delight.

Debra:  Yeah, there we go.  I just wrote it to her.

Madelyn:         Thank you.

Debra:  Because I’m not kidding.  You will — that’s what happened to Trevor Hall.  He wrote a whole album based on astrology because he fell in love with himself.

Madelyn:         Oh.  I love that.

Debra:  I said, “How long could this interview be?”  And now we’ve gone so long because we couldn’t stop, because you’re really delightful.  So you think you like me; I like you.

Madelyn:         Oh, thank you.  Oh, this is honestly one of my favorite podcasts I’ve ever done.  Yeah, this was really fun.

Debra:  [Inaudible 1:03:18] and Yum-yums, and we had loving the dog.  We did everything we love.

Madelyn:         We combined everything that is good.  We talked about sacredness.  We talked about slowing down.  Oh, yeah, we talked about the sun.  Yeah.  Thank you so much for coming on to the show.  Okay, I will let you go now.  Everyone, make sure that you go to the show notes for this episode and click on all those delicious links.

Debra:  You’re so cute.  You should see her right now.

Madelyn:         I’m like praying as I’m saying this, just like looking into the sky.

Debra:  A little kid.

Madelyn:         I’m a little kid, yes.  Everyone let us know what your Yum-yums are.  We want to know what your Yum-yums are.  Comment on the show notes, or go and head on over to Instagram and let us know.  We can’t wait to hear from you, and we will see you very soon on another episode of the Mind Body Musings podcast.

There you have it.  I hope you loved this episode with Debra Silverman.  Go to maddymoon.com/appliedastrology to get that free three-part video series.  See you there.

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